Since The Weeknd is performing at the Super Bowl Halftime show, I thought it’d be nice to post a little guide to his discography for anyone interested in looking to do a deep dive into his work. I would’ve posted this the day of the event, but I assume that some people would probably like to go through it over the weekend.
This shares a direct overview of his released material, talking about his career and the background of the music, the videos, the meanings and all. I’ve written this from a pop perspective, keeping in mind that his history might be fairly new for general pop fans.
I also go into the storyline of the red suit character, if your interested in catching up on that narrative before the Halftime show (which will continue the story), I’ve listed the chronological order below followed by an explanation of that narrative.
I wanna be clear that the interpretations/theories are not conclusive. Abel rarely shares the metaphors or meanings behind his music. This is based on widely based on fan discussion/mutual interpretation. Fans can feel free to expand on anything in the comments.
It is important to know about Abel's backstory to get a certain perspective of where he’s coming from, especially when discussing the songs that deal with substance abuse. These recent articles cover his early years really well and share an up-to-date point of view of his success.
Variety 2020
Billboard 2021 - Also a good source for getting to know his team.
So, an essential TL;DR is this: Abel Tesfaye came from a broken home, he was born to Ethiopian immigrant parents who split up when Tesfaye was less than seven. He then lived with his mother and grandmother, only rarely seeing his father but having a nice impression of him. His drug addiction started as soon as he was a high schooler, he turned to shoplifting to pay for this need of various substances. Soon he dropped out of high school, leaving his home the same weekend, which would later inspire his stage name, The Weeknd. The name is reference/homage to the weekend his life changed.
Quick side note, I didn’t think this post would nearly reach the character limit. So I’ve cut out excess detail and lists of producers (with the exception of After Hours since we’re in that era).
Table of contents

XO.
House of Balloons.
Thursday.
Echoes of Silence.
Trilogy.
Kiss Land.
King of the Fall.
Beauty Behind The Madness.
Starboy.
My Dear Melancholy.
After Hours.

XO.

XO is the record label that The Weeknd and co. created in order to publish the first mixtape (House of Balloons) and the ones that would follow afterwards. XO has a lot of meanings that have to do with what went into the music and what still goes into it. XO is what the fans call themselves, popularly with the phrase XO Till We OD (shortened to XOTWOD); another way of saying “we’re ride or die for The Weeknd and his team.”
While some argue that it could mean anything since there isn’t clear meaning to it, fans continue to associate the abbreviation with ecstasy (X) and oxycontin (O). That definition stems from XOTWOD, fans assume it’s true because of the team’s history of drug usage. While others take it as it’s classical definition “hugs and kisses” because of the consistent lyrical nature of The Weeknd’s songs.
Overtime the definition of XO is simply known as: the fans, the crew, and the label. The Weeknd is more than just one person, he comes with XO. For the sake of clarity in this writeup, I’m going to refer to his crew as XO and the fans as “the fans.”
XO still serves as a record label, the current roster is The Weeknd, Belly, Nav, and Black Atlass. It remains The Weeknd’s record label and was his first label before becoming a subsidiary of Republic Records.
Throughout his career, The Weeknd has worked with Illangelo, a Canadian producer who’s work the fans adore. Carlo “Illangelo” Montagnese was one of main the producers on The Weeknd’s Trilogy, he’s credited on each track. The fan base claims his work to be some of the most notable artistry in The Weeknd’s discography. Their work together continued with Beauty Behind The Madness, Illangelo worked on seven tracks for that album. He then returned for After Hours working on another seven tracks.
DaHeala, another Canadian producer, is another significant factor in The Weeknd’s music. Jason “DaHeala” Quenneville worked as lead producer on Kiss Land. He returned to work on six tracks for The Weeknd’s Beauty Behind The Madness, including the hit Earned It. DaHeala returned as a writer for six of the songs on Starboy. Then DaHeala worked on nine After Hours tracks, and worked as the only producewriter alongside The Weeknd for bonus tracks Missed You and Final Lullaby.

House of Balloons.

Didn't wanna make this NSFW, so here's the super clean edited cover

This is a happy house. We’re happy here. (House of Balloons/Glass Table Girls)

One of the most iconic title tracks of all time. House of Balloons is about a lifestyle of drugs, sex, and partying; all in effort to drown out self-doubt. It comes from a place of wanting to make it big while doing what you can to survive, all while pretending everything’s alright. The mixtape describes various sorts of women, how they’ve had impacted the life of someone who’s already down on his luck.
Fans often refer to House of Balloons as The Weeknd’s best work. The mixtape was the first introduction the world got of XO, and it was one hell of a way to make an impression. It’s personal for the fans and Abel because it’s the only piece of work known to be based on his life. At the end of the day he’s a songwriter, with many of his albums he creates scenarios and world that he likes to explore through the music. But House of Balloons is known to be based entirely on his life. It remains The Weeknd’s most critically acclaimed work.
House of Balloons was crafted through the influences of Hip-Hip/Indie-Rock with the main focus on R&B. Through the genius of Ilangelo, the record was—and is—mesmerizing capturing the essence of a lifestyle that The Weeknd described as “anti-everything.”
House of Balloons assisted The Weeknd in gaining the attention of Republic Records, which would then host The Weeknd’s own label XO. Though hesitant at first, XO decided to partner with Republic after the co-founding brothers Monte and Avery Lipman kept coming back to Toronto solely for The Weeknd.
House of Balloons received three videos, The Knowing, Wicked Games and Twenty Eight. The Knowing was the very first video The Weeknd made, so of course it’d be something other-worldly; it essentially reflects the song itself but in a sci-fi setting. Twenty Eight represents Abel’s life after fame but also his remorse of letting captivating women into his life.
Fun fact— House of Balloons is an actual place in Toronto, it was where him and his crew lived after he dropped out of high school. They’d host parties, call girls, do drugs, and to make it less depressing they’d fill it with balloons.

Thursday.

Valerie on the cover

Welcome to the other side. (Life of the Party)

Thursday consists of the same themes as HoB; sex and drugs. But there’s a twist, he’s in a semi-relationship with this girl Valerie. She’s the only one on his mind, even though they meet only one day of the week, any guesses on what day that could be? Through The Weeknd’s phenomenal voice and the insane production, we’re also presented with this story of a toxic relationship where Valerie used to have the upper hand but she no longer does when she falls for The Weeknd.
While Thursday isn’t entirely about the relationship of The Weeknd and Valerie, it consists of reflections to Abel’s life after the release of House of Balloons. The song Rolling Stone notably has a double meaning, in which Abel asks his fans if they’ll stick with him when he gets mainstream appeal and decides to change his sound.
The track Valerie wasn’t on the original release of Thursday, it added when Trilogy was released. Ending the mixtape with Heaven or Las Vegas meant that The Weeknd’s actions with and without Valerie were a result of his fatherless childhood, making him push anyone away. That meaning behind Thursday doesn’t change when Valerie is added to the track list, it just means that both want the toxic relationship back.
The Zone (feat. Drake) was the first feature The Weeknd had on any of his work, the video for it was released in November of 2012. Rolling Stone had also received a video in October of 2012. Both were directed by The Weeknd and reflect the two different aspects of Thursday. The Zone has Valerie living it up in the House of Balloons. And Rolling Stone has The Weeknd doing a photoshoot for Trilogy, reflective of the song itself.
Fun Fact— the female voice heard in Lonely Star is The Weeknd’s, he pitched his voice to make it sound like a woman’s.

Echoes of Silence.

Diana on the cover

Laisse tomber les filles. Un jour c'est toi qu'on laissera. [Leave the girls alone. One day it’ll be you they will leave.] (Montreal)

Out of a dark introductory into the early life of The Weeknd, Echoes of Silence is the darkest work of his Trilogy. Let’s be honest the story here isn’t entirely ethical at times but makes for one hell of a mixtape.
Similar to Thursday, Echoes of Silence follows a storyline. After accumulating success, The Weeknd gains the attention of various women. There was this one woman (D.D.) who he liked but she initially rejected him (Montreal). The woman came back to him for his fame status and evidently fell in love with him (Outside), but now that he’s got the upper hand he treats him like a groupie (XO/The Host) and lets... bad things happen to her; she’s gotta pass a test before she can get with him. This test is either drugs or his crew (Initiation). He ultimately tells this woman that he’s not exactly longterm-relationship material, perhaps because her love is temporary (Same Old Song), because he’s Next. With the end of Echoes of Silence (originally ending on the title track) the listener is left to wonder why The Weeknd left her if he’d simply want her to stay.
As a side note— Initiation should not be condoned. It remains true that The Weeknd is a songwriter and the progression of time has changed perspectives. But a song that makes such suggestions as Initiation should not be ethically/morally claimed or celebrated.
The mixtape follows The Weeknd’s lifestyle after he’s gained all this success, he’s still the same person but now he’s gotten everything he wanted. Some tracks such as The Fall continue to emphasize his journey into stardom and his acceptance of fame being temporary. With the added Till Dawn (Here Comes The Sun), The Weeknd acknowledges the changes in his life, realizing that the old lifestyle is no longer there for him or his past lovers.
Echoes of Silence is known as an underrated gem of The Weeknd’s discography, it’s well received by fans and critically acclaimed but often brushed under the rug in discussion of his work. A lot of fans and casual listeners play the mixtapes through Trilogy rather than their respective albums. This often leads to people not playing EoS either at all or only the first few tracks, this is predominantly due to the nature of the compilation being nearly three hours long.
Fun fact— D.D. is a cover of Michael Jackson’s iconic Dirty Diana. Fans have named the woman in Echoes of Silence Diana because of this track. Various theories argue that the mixtape itself is based on the Dirty Diana itself with exaggerations of the truth, or whether or not it’s a story The Weeknd crafted based on the song.

Trilogy.

Rolling Stone video doubled as a shoot

You don’t know what’s in store. (High For This.)

Trilogy is a compilation of The Weeknd’s mixtapes, House of Balloons, Thursday, and Echoes of Silence. These three mixtapes were released 3-4 months apart from one another for free digital download in 2011, they gained quite a lot of attention from various industry executives.
Prior to the release of Trilogy, The Weeknd featured on Drake’s Take Care with Crew Love. The song was Abel’s first exposure to a Rap crowd/Rap fans, more people began listening to his music after the release of Take Care. The Weeknd then featured on Wiz Khalifa’s Remember You, which served as the second single off Wiz Khalifa’s O.N.I.F.C. Following those two releases, The Weeknd released Wicked Games as the first single off Trilogy.
Trilogy was formed after The Weeknd came under Republic Records’ management. The compilation album reached a debut/peak position of 4 on the Billboard 200 while reaching number one on the US Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums chart. It’s a well received album with the highlight said to be House of Balloons, which arguably went on to influence various sorts of R&B music of the 2010s.
Videos for Trilogy

Kiss Land.

Iconic

I went from starin' at the same four walls for 21 years. To seein' the whole world in just 12 months. (Kiss Land)

Kiss Land is based on The Weeknd’s tour life. Visiting unfamiliar places gave Abel horror movie vibes. A guy who used to own the city (Toronto) he lived in is now a small fish in the ocean of the entire world. The Weeknd’s first studio album was a great introduction into the sound he would soon get well acquainted with.
While continuing the R&B sound with the essence of Dark Wave, the album explores emptiness and regret throughout the lyrics—or what pop fans could categorize as dark pop—. The Japanese aesthetic used for various videos and the single covers/booklet reflects the themes of feeling overwhelmed by such a loud world that there’s no point in being if you don’t belong.
The album explores the real-world and the women in it as well as regrets regarding past actions, namely letting go of women who could’ve been the one in Adaptation. The Weeknd attempts to find that satisfaction in other women and past lovers, but accidentally falls for a sex worker in Belong To The World. With Wanderlust he accepts and expresses that love in the modern world isn’t entirely possible. While continuing to tour the world he enjoys these new experiences with XO (Live For feat. Drake), as well as the new women in his life (Kiss Land). And when he’s back home, he accepts the loss of the relationship he cherished.
Kiss Land debuted and peaked at number two on the Billboard 200. It was fairly acclaimed but gained a massive cult following. There were four videos for made for the album, the title track, Belong To the World, Live For (feat. Drake), and Pretty. Those four songs received interesting visuals that kept up with their respective themes while Belong To the World/Kiss Land got visuals that matched the aesthetic of the album. To this day fans ask Abel for a part two to the horror-movie-inspired album after he said it’s the only album he would have a sequel for.
Videos for Kiss Land
Fun Fact— The video for Kiss Land on YouTube is an extremely edited version of the actual video shot for the song. The directors cut further explores the erotic-horror themes if the album.

King of the Fall.

King of the Fall 2020 cover (even though I talk about three other songs here)

Driving by the streets we used to walk through like a triumph. (King of the Fall)

These next few song were released between the Kiss Land and Beauty Behind the Madness era. Some fans would classify them as part of the Beauty Behind the Madness era—I’d say the same tbh—but they stand apart on the basis of success and acclaim. It’s a transition between The Weeknd being an underrated R&B musician to being a mainstream artist with massive recognition and appreciation.
The first of these four songs is King of the Fall. A fan favourite and a standout in The Weeknd’s discography. This is one of The Weeknd’s few Rap tracks, it gained a lot of attention within the Rap sphere. It was the way in which XO would announce that they’ve made it, little did they know that this was just the start.
Prior to the release of Beauty Behind the Madness (BBTM), The Weeknd gained mainstream attention. The Weeknd’s exposure to mainstream music was uphill, it wasn’t overnight. The first taste of BBTM came from Often, a song that reflected the themes of sex that Abel was known for. The track was released more than a year before BBTM’s release and had made it onto the trackless unlike King of the Fall. Slowly but surely The Weeknd gained exposure, his main sources of exposure were through a collaboration and a soundtrack.
Most pop fans heard about The Weeknd through his hit collaboration with Ariana Grande, Love Me Harder. The collab was made through Republic when The Weeknd said he wanted more than what he had gotten through Kiss Land. Ariana and Abel had formed a real bond cough The Hills cough, their bond assisted the song in becoming a memorable hit for both artists. Love Me Harder was a top ten hit on the Billboard Hot 100.
Later that year, The Weeknd was featured on the Fifty Shades of Grey soundtrack with Earned It, as well as Where You Belong. Earned It became a massive hit peaking at 3 on the Billboard Hot 100 and receiving an Oscar nomination for The Weeknd; a massive milestone for XO. Earned It kept up with Abel’s signature lyrics but the production differed heavily from the sort of R&B he was known for.
Videos from that era

Beauty Behind the Madness.

I can hear this image

I'm that ***** with the hair singin' 'bout poppin' pills, fuckin' bitches, livin' life so trill. (Tell Your Friends)

Following the success of Love Me Harder and Earned It, the Beauty Behind the Madness era began with The Hills. This was The Weeknd’s first number one on the Billboard Hot 100. Along with the video, The Hills became an addictive classic. The production and lyrics mirror a mature version of the sound that was originally found on Trilogy. It was truly in keeping with The Weeknd’s character, the only difference was his haircut.
Next came Can’t Feel My Face, a Max Martin production that differed greatly from anything The Weeknd put out in the past. In past songs, Abel had expressed his fear of losing his following if he went mainstream simultaneously asking his fans if they’d stay. He repeats that sentiment in the Can’t Feel My Face video. The sound has changed, the lyrics stay the same but now he’s a pop-star. The song became a hit as it reached number one on the Billboard Hot 100. With this massive bop previous fans still stayed, The Weeknd becoming a pop singer didn’t at all alter his image or sound; he mastered it.
In The Night and Acquainted were released as singles on the same day, the were the only singles to come after the release of Beauty Behind The Madness. The former received a music video treatment that followed the theme of the song itself while also starring Abel’s girlfriend at the time, Bella Hadid. Acquainted was robbed of a video even though Abel had shown off the fact that a video was in development; the song kept in the tone of The Weeknd’s work prior to BBTM.
Beauty Behind the Madness captures a Hollywood-based reality that The Weeknd came to understand: the dark aspects of your life will continue to follow you wherever you are. Real Life, Losers (feat. Labrinth), Tell Your Friends, Dark Times (feat. Ed Sheeran), and Prisoner (feat. Lana Del Rey) all capture a nihilistic view of a dream achieved.
Most of the videos of Beauty Behind The Madness have a mysterious white man. He’s featured in The Hills, Can’t Feel My Face, and Tell Your Friends. That man represents the devil. Throughout his journey in those videos, (The Hills) Abel runs into the devil after his car crash, (Can’t Feel My Face) he’s at the club then lights him on fire. The significance behind the fire could be selling his soul to the devil, BBTM is about Hollywood and a popular Hollywood myth is that celebrities sell their souls to the devil in exchange for fame. So in the Can’t Feel My Face video, Abel changes his sound to Pop (from R&B) thus leaving his signature sound in order to become famous, everyone starts enjoying his music once he’s sold his soul.
Then we see The Weeknd burying himself in Tell Your Friends, perhaps leaving the old Abel behind after the deal with the devil. However, instead of thanking the devil, Abel takes his revenge and shoots him. But wait, there’s more! The album trailer for BBTM features the devil burning a billboard with The Weeknd’s face on it, revealing Beauty Behind The Madness. HOWEVER, the final cut for the video features the devil being arrested while The Weeknd watches. This is a more realistic form of karma that the devil gets.
Videos for BBTM

Starboy.

Filled with bops

If I could, I'd trade it all, trade it for a halo. And she said that she'll pray for me, I said, "It's too late for me.” (Ordinary Life)

After the massive success of Beauty Behind the Madness, there was a lot of hype around what The Weeknd would do next; evidently he decided to explore Pop. The fandom he had gained wasn’t entirely based in the Pop sphere, his fans consisted of general Rap fans, but Starboy attracted the Pop audience.
Initially, most of his older fans couldn’t get behind Starboy, it differed greatly from the previous sound. It was crazy to think that the guy who made Trilogy managed to make such a Pop-centric album. But this was Abel expressing his versatility.
Since this is where most pop fans found out about Abel’s work and became fans I won’t talk too much about the singles, rather more about the album itself. His work with Daft Punk cemented this album in an efficient mix between Pop and R&B, where Beauty Behind the Madness was more R&B with Pop, Starboy was considered Pop with R&B.
Beyond the genres, Starboy explores two evident themes. One being his life with fame and recognition. The next being his love life in Hollywood, this aspect of the album came from his relationship with Bella Hadid which ended after the release of the album.
The cross became the symbol for that era and appeared in the album’s photoshoot as well as the videos. There was never any conclusive word on the use of the cross but there are various theories about it, something to note is that Abel was raised Christian, it could perhaps be a reflection of his past.
The cross he uses to destroy his accolades (Starboy video) is assisting him rather than something that’s holding him back. Abel’s upbringing was rough but now he’s celebrating it rather than feeling bad for himself. The cross continues to come up in the Party Monster video, this time it’s in the party house he’s making his way through. Then it shows up in the video for Reminder, this time in the form of his merch, the people wearing it are perhaps representative of his fans. Then we see it in the False Alarm video, both Abel and the girl are wearing it; the notable thing being that Abel holds his cross up before dying. Then in the brilliant video for Secrets, after giving up on the girl he’s with he leaves the building to find a giant cross. And finally in the I Feel It Coming video, The Weeknd sports a shiny cross necklace, and Daft Punk find it years and years after Abel froze.
The videos tell us that the cross is an evident piece of his story. This could mean that his past will always be with him, no matter what sort of fame he’s experiencing he’ll always be who he once was.
Also, I’m gonna take this moment to once again the genius that is the Secrets (both the song and the video). Yes it’s my favourite song/video off of Starboy but it’s so underrated.
Videos for Starboy, Secrets video bottom right
Fun Fact— Most demos of the tracks on Starboy weren’t as pop as they became, they started off R&B but became pop after production.

My Dear Melancholy.

Note the comma

They said our love is just a game, I don't care what they say. But I'ma drink the pain away, I'll be back to my old ways. (Privilege)

Oof (but in a good way, this whole thing is a bop). For this one I’m gonna talk extensively about The Weeknd’s relationships, which personally feels really invasive but it’s but it’s essential when talking about these sad boy anthems. Beyond that I’d just like to state that though they are part of the narrative both Bella Hadid and Selena Gomez deserve respect/privacy.
So when it comes to Pop music fans I think it’s safe to say that we all know a lot about this one. My Dear Melancholy (MDM) came after the very public relationship of The Weeknd and Selena Gomez. However it’s not just about Selena, some songs reflect his relationship with Bella Hadid (whom he got back with a month after MDM’s release).
My Dear Melancholy consists with The Weeknd’s exploration/mastery of merging Pop and R&B together. The EP was praised by fans for its lyrics and production, many went on to theorize that it was his most personal project since House of Balloons. The EP was the shortest album to reach number one on the Billboard 200.
My Dear Melancholy and fan conspiracies; name a better duo. The first theory being that the EP is entirely about Selena Gomez which wasn’t too much of a mystery since the lyric “I almost cut a piece of myself for your life” exists. Not only did MDM come after Abel’s relationship with Selena Gomez but also after his relationship with Bella Hadid. As far as fans were aware those two relationships were the most important relationships Abel had ever been in.
In theory, the songs about Bella and Selena can be categorized. Call Out My Name, Try Me, and Privilege are likely about Selena. Wasted Times, and Hurt You are likely about Bella. Leaving I Was Never There to act as an introspective look into The Weeknd’s life, basically making him hop back on his vices for comfort.
Another popular theory was that My Dear Melancholy was the first of another trilogy. This rumour was widely believed due to the comma at the end of the title on the album cover. But the fans soon gained a real reason to believe this theory, since the CEO of XO (the record label), Sal had liked an Instagram post that featured the cover and alleged date. Since Trilogy is a fan favourite this conspiracy spread like wild fire, so much so that fake titles and covers were made. The name of this trilogy would be: (1)My Dear Melancholy, (2)We’re Alone Together, (3)Abel.
Only one song served as a single for the EP. Call Out My Name was released nearly two months prior to the actual release of the album, it debuted/peaked at number four on the Billboard Hot 100. The mysterious video captures The Weeknd in various atmospheric places that reflect the tone of the EP, a haunting yet unexplained reality that the listener is to reflect on.
From the cover, to the music, to the video, to lyrics, My Dear Melancholy is an introspective reflection of heartbreak.
Call out my name video

After Hours.

Talented, Brilliant, Incredible, etc.

My darkest hours. (After Hours)

After Hours comes after success but references two lows in The Weeknd’s life. The album welcomes darkness and leads the listener towards a dead-end. The Weeknd’s past two albums (Beauty Behind The Madness and Starboy) ended on hopeful notes, they left the listener with a sense of hope but all hope his lost with After Hours.
Fans compare After Hours to House of Balloons—a rare occurrence considering House of Balloons’ acclaim—arguing that both albums are on the same level. Debate continues on whether or not both albums are on the same caliber. The belief that After Hours stems from reality does a lot to help its side of the argument.
The era began with Mercedes-Benz commercial that featured Blinding Lights, that was our first taste of the everlasting bop. Heartless was premiered on an episode of Memento Mori hours before its release on the 27 of November (2019), Blinding Lights was released two days later. Both videos were as brain melting as promised and the served as the tip of the iceberg.
After Hours was released nine days after COVID-19 was declared a pandemic, there was a massive risk in releasing an album that would not have a lot of promotion after it’s release (other than magazine coverage). There was no telling whether or not people would pay attention to the album during the height of the fear surrounding the pandemic, but it was a massive success. After Hours debuted at number one on the Billboard 200, with singles Heartless and Blinding Lights topping the Billboard Hot 100.
The album is layered with haunting productions that remains predominantly R&B but dives deep into Pop with some of the tracks. Max Martin produced the massive hit Blinding Lights as well as In Your Eyes, Save Your Tears, Hardest to Love, and Scared to Live which samples Elton John’s Your Song. Other notable producers include Metro Boomin who worked on the hit Heartless as well as Escape from LA, Faith, and Until I Bleed Out. With Kevin Parker on the interlude Repeat After Me.
Beyond the production are the narrative driven lyrics. In theory the album references two significant events in Abel’s life, his second breakup with Bella Hadid and his arrest in Las Vegas. The latter was due to his misbehaviour; in January 2015 he punched a cop in Vegas, lmao. Which means that After Hours is a recollection of The Weeknd’s first few years in LA. He merges the concept of his breakup with the idea of being an upcoming star, feeling free in the city of lights all while diving deep into the meaninglessness of those lights.
While After Hours starts with loneliness and a second chance it leads up to Abel returning to his vices of lust. In Alone Again his loneliness caught up to him and he’s asking for a second chance. He acknowledges his mistakes and situation in Too Late/Hardest to Love, in Scared to Live his ex then returns to him for a second time. He remembers his past ways in Snowchild and the way in which it lead to better days, but where do you go after such highs? In Escape From LA he faces the superficial reality of Hollywood, glad that he got that he got back with his ex, while continuing to question if it’s worth it. But he fucks up the second chance when she pulls up to the studio.
Who is she? Much like the other mysteries surrounding The Weeknd’s music, we may never know. Is it all more of The Weeknd’s songwriting ability or is it driven by reality? Fans found a merge between the two to be more accurate, After Hours is about heartbreak and a return to the vices that held The Weeknd back.
Heartless is when The Weeknd is once again back to his ways, he may have been in a serious relationship but after throwing that away he spirals back to the way he once was. It’s sad but it’s one hell of a song. Speaking of brilliant songs, Faith is when Abel admits that he’s back on his vices, he states that he needs his ex back with him till the end; he’s back to self-loathing.
So when he says he’s blinded by the lights, there’s two meanings to it. The Faith outro tells us that he’s in a car with flashing lights, a cop car (as confirmed by Abel) to be exact. Then Blinding Lights tells us that while he’s watching the bright lights of Vegas pass him by he calls out for the girl that he regrets losing. That is the peak of the After Hours narrative. He’s behaving badly over the loss of the girl he loved and is now at the worst position trying to find her and gain her trust for a third time.
Following Blinding Lights is In Your Eyes, this is where The Weeknd vows not to judge her; he can see right through her but will never do anything to make her upset. Does this mean their back together? Not exactly. Save Your Tears details a sort of moving-on that The Weeknd isn’t ready for but tries to help her move on, blind to his own inability to move on. Does it work? Not really. Repeat After Me (Interlude) shows that he’s still trying to convince himself that he’s unfazed by the loss of a meaningful relationship.
Then you hear a true masterpiece. The title track is a spiral into true regret and an apology for his actions, he admits that his ex girlfriend is the only reason he lives. In a dark lonely city she’s the only one keeping him sane. But his pleas fail, Until I Bleed Out is when The Weeknd no longer wants her in his life so much so that he wants to erase his memory of anything related to her. The bonus tracks then echo the final sentiment.
It’s one sad ass album, ain’t it. But here’s where the Red Suit Character comes in.
Shoutout to the makeup department
The album isn’t the only narrative to follow with After Hours. The videos for the album follow their own sort of narrative. The story follows an unnamed guy that goes by “red suit character” according to The Weeknd.
There’s a lot of confusion and endless theories surrounding this character’s story, after The Weeknd confirmed that it’s about a decent into Hollywood culture it makes more sense… kind of. I’m gonna discuss the storyline without talking about the movies that have influenced it, this way the focus remains on the character.
The order of these videos is Heartless / Blinding Lights / Blinding Lights (Live on Kimmel)* / After Hours short film / In Your Eyes / Until I Bleed Out / Snowchild / Too Late / Live at AMAs* / Save Your Tears
*Though all live performances could count as part of the narrative, these one relate directly with the videos that follow.
He’s is first seen in Vegas with Metro Boomin (Heartless), intoxicated on various substances. He dives deeper into his high until he licks a frog, after that he faces the true effects of this high. He’s frightened by the result and runs far away from Vegas. (Blinding Lights) He’s then found in LA, where he’s dancing in the street, hypnotized by the singer, beat up by guards, and races past all those bright lights in his Benz. Ultimately realizing the shallowness of the Los Angeles fantasy.
(Blinding Lights Live on Kimmel) We then find him performing Blinding Lights live, while he attempts to find more reason in within the madness city; he couldn’t find it on the streets so he goes to the stage. (After Hours short film) Even then there’s no meaning to anything in the city, he mindlessly wanders into the depth of the subway where he’s dragged by the reality of it all and ends up possessed. (In Your Eyes) After being possessed he chases the woman whose boyfriend he just murdered, she runs into a club falls deeper into the After Hours fantasy, in a successful attempt to defend herself she beheads the red suit character and dances all over LA with his head, iconic behaviour.
(Until I Bleed Out) Then in an ethereal dreamscape, red suit character finds himself in a House of Balloons. He’s trying to escape, but the people there keep pulling him in; he’s getting higher while observing Glass Table Girls. He spirals into the antarctic, the other side of the world. From Heatless to this point in his story, his vices lead him back to the lowest point in Abel’s life. Is it Hell, Heaven or Las Vegas? (Snowchild) He relives his career up until the point where his story began. Considering he’s dead, his life basically flashed before his eyes.
(Too Late) LA girls find the red suit character’s head and live their best life. They wanna have sex with him so they find the best boy parts by calling up a stripper who could be the body. The stitch the head up with the body and do what they want. But now he’s brought back to life. (Live at AMAs) He’s had work done… He went in to get his nose fixed and the doctor said “you sure that’s all you want?” The red suit character’s face is healing while he tries to celebrate his life on top of a bridge.
(Save Your Tears) Surrounded by a masked cult he debut’s his new face. Do they like it? Are they impressed? Not instantly, their masks translate no expression so how’s he to know? Is any of this worth it? Nope red suit character continues to die inside. He finds a maskless girl in the crowd, she’s lively unlike the rest; but even then, nothing on the inside nothing on the outside. He wants death again, somehow a second chance with this city is still pointless. He tries to kill himself via the girl and himself but it’s all a facade; theatrics.
His story continues but that’s all we know so far.
The videos make a lot of film references. This post by explain these references very well, as well as past album references here (part one) and here (part two).
After Hours is inspired by a lot of movies, since Abel is in fact a cinephile. The main movies that inspired the aesthetic and storytelling are believed to be Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (1998), Casino (1995), Joker (2019), Uncut Gems (2020), and After Hours (1985). The album tells two sad narratives but remains one of The Weeknd’s best works yet. He’s expanded his videography and enhanced the interest of people who casually enjoy his music and of course his fans.
But the era isn’t over, by the time this is posted his Super Bowl Halftime show is yet to happen. And it’ll continue the red suit character’s story.
Videos for After Hours (so far)
Fun Fact—The Heartless video features a reference to Thursday. When he’s trying to run from Vegas, a sign behind him flashes “Heartless / Heaven or Las Vegas.” This could be a reference to Abel running from his past, after all Heartless is about him returning to his vices.

END.

Thank you for reading this, again, I didn’t realize it would end up being this long. But I hope this this served as a nice refresher for any fans who wanted to revisit Abel’s work before the Super Bowl.
And I really hope that anyone interested in getting into his music finds this helpful. Once again, the theories/interpretations mentioned aren’t conclusive, they’re widely based on fan discussion/mutual interpretation.
Due to the character limit I couldn’t add too links to the albums, so here are some artist links.
Apple Music | Spotify | YouTube | The Weeknd’s Shop | Tidal | Genius

Game Concept: Fallout Cincinnati

(Repost because I posted this really late and I was hoping to get some more discussion on the ideas.)
TLDR: Cincinnati seems like an interesting location for a future Fallout game and I break down my reasoning and then give an idea for a story. Maybe Cincinnati, Ohio isn’t as popular as other American cities, but I think it still deserves a shot.
So this post is taking some older ideas in some Reddit posts for a Fallout game and adding some additional ideas for it. I believe that a Fallout game set in and around Cincinnati, Ohio could potentially be a good fit for the Fallout franchise. I’m gonna break down the reasons why I think it could fit the theme/work as a map and then some story ideas for what could work in the area. I’d also like to state that my ideas are based off of information from the Fallout Wiki and Wikipedia. If anything doesn’t add up, I apologize.
MY REASONING FOR CINCINNATI AND WHY IT CAN FIT THE FALLOUT LORE:
-So Cincinnati might not seem like a city as grandiose as somewhere like NYC, Philadelphia, Detroit, New Orleans, etc. To an extent, I totally agree with that sentiment. It’d be really cool to see those cities that were mentioned above as future Fallout locations. However, I believe that those world ideas are also so full of interesting locations that a game trying to capture it all would struggle to get all the significant locations with current technology. Cincinnati is a smaller city that is still rich with culture and history that could be captured more accurately than bigger projects.
-A decent amount of the skyscrapers and more significant places of Cincinnati and the surrounding cities are somewhat older. There is enough buildings in Cincinnati that were built before or close enough to the divergence point that the skyline and city layout could be decently recognizable.
-Cincinnati had a decently sized manufacturing and industrial sector before the IRL Midwest De-Industrialization and Formation of the Rust Belt in the 40s and 50s. Considering that Fallout is themed around the ‘Pax Americana 1950s & Early 60s’ culture, the idea of showing off a Midwest city that continued to boom in those sectors could be an interesting focus for a Fallout game.
-Cincinnati has a large, mostly unused subway system that was never finished. In game, we could see areas of underground activity like the Fallout 3 subway system. The IRL subway eventually had a section that was also reworked to be a nuclear shelter, so a Vault being under the city wouldn’t be far-fetched.
-The Underground Railroad considered Cincinnati to be an important stop along the way, as it was a large destination for runaway slaves. The city was seen as a large region to hide amongst and find work that was just north of the Ohio River, where Slavery was mostly illegal (still not that great for runaways, but better than the South). Any concepts of slaves coming to Cincinnati for newfound freedoms or a system/faction of abolitionists and runaways would make a lot of sense for the themes.
-The Ohio River would be an important location that could go right through the middle of the map. Based off of how irradiated the rivers were in Fallout 3: The Pitt, I think it’d be safe to assume that the Ohio River in Cincinnati would also be unsafe to travel across. This creates something like the Deathclaws north of Goodsprings in Fallout: New Vegas where players can follow a normal path to get to the main city. This also means that it could create fun and challenging ways to get across the river.
-Fallout’s 1950s styled America is still in love with baseball. If you’re looking for a major city with a rich baseball history/culture, Cincinnati’s your place. Cincinnati is the city where the first professional baseball team was created, the Red Stockings. It could be host to a baseball themed faction, a settlement like Diamond City, or maybe even a quest line to reform a pro baseball team.
-The Cincinnati Zoo is a long standing and prestigious zoo that could be an interesting point in this hypothetical game. Since the zoo is home to various creatures that aren’t native to most of America, we could see interesting enemy mobs like mutated gorillas and irradiated hippos.
-IRL Cincinnati is home to major companies like Kroger, Procter&Gamble, and GE Aviation. Fallout companies like Super Duper Mart and Abraxodyne Chemical could be stand-ins for Kroger and P&G. It’d be a cool bit of story building for some of the pre-war companies that have products littering the Fallout wastelands.
-While New Orleans is probably more famous for this point, Cincinnati was also historically home to a developed steamboat industry that made it an important location in the history of American exploration/expansion into the river basins of Midwest America. Fallout 4’s museums based around Massachusetts’ involvement in the American War of Independence show off the cultural significance of the region in American history. Cincinnati could have a museum dedicated to it’s prominent position as a gateway to the west, showing off it’s contributions to expansionist American culture.
-One of the cities in the Cincinnati region is a town south of the Ohio River known as Newport, Kentucky. Historically, before Las Vegas became Sin City, Newport, KY was a huge contender for that role. From the 1920s to the 1950s, Newport was a city filled with criminal bosses and corrupt public officials. Casinos, brothels, and other illegal enterprises made up a good chunk of everyday life for this town. If fans want to recapture the spirit of New Vegas with the focus on moral degradation and a city of ‘Sex, Drugs, and Rock’n’Roll,’ then look no further than Newport.
-Cincinnati was one of the major US cities that had Nike anti-air missile bases around the Greater Cincinnati area. I don’t think it’d be too far of a stretch to assume that after world tensions got worse in the 21st century, that the government would repurpose some of these launch sites into nuclear silos. Maybe we could see another Megaton situation.
-Cincinnati is also home to 3 facilities in the area that were dedicated to nuclear research and enrichment (until these plants were closed due radiation leaking out). These would be some great areas to explore and mess around with nuclear enrichment.
WHEN WOULD THIS TAKE PLACE & WHO WOULD BE INVOLVED:
So I feel like this game could work if it was set between the ending of Fallout 2 and the beginning of Fallout 3. IMO, the ideal starting date would be between 2248 and 2252 due to the ideas I have for the factions that could be used in this game. I don’t have all the details for all the different factions, but I have 4 ideas for 4 major factions. Two new ones and two old ones that could fit the area.
RETURNING FACTIONS:
-The Brotherhood (Chicago Faction) So the Brotherhood of Chicago is an ill defined group that exists only in references. Fallout: Tactics set up a group known as the Midwest Brotherhood, however, Tactics is no longer recognized as a canon game since Bethesda acquired the Fallout series. According to Fallout 3 & 4 though, there is still a group of the Brotherhood that still exists in the Chicago area. Like Tactics, the Chicago group of the Brotherhood arrived in Chicago due to an airship crashing into the area. Beyond this, there isn’t much lore about the Chicago chapter so this is where I’d like to add my ideas. After the crash, feeling disconnected from the rest of the Brotherhood (and their dedicated supplies and supply lines), the Chicago chapter turns more towards the religious aspects of the Brotherhood. Having a lot of connections to the airship that decided their fate, as well as possibly being based out of Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport, the Chicago Brotherhood turns towards the sky. They begin a process of turning into an Aviation cult, a society that worships and encourages air travel. Like the old Brotherhood, they would hoard technologies, just more focused on air travel and air defenses. Over time, they begin to expand around the Great Lakes region, eventually coming to a manpower crisis. At this point, the Chicago chapter would either loosen it’s recruiting standards to allow in wastelanders who would join due to their acceptance of their new faith system, or the Chicago chapter would create a Spartan styled theocratic dictatorship with the airship survivors acting as foreign rulers over Chicagoans. Either or would have interesting story choices, but I can’t chose which I like more. Anyhow, the Chicago chapter eventually comes across tales of ‘Prophet Wright and Prophet Patterson,’ the founders of flight (and possibly the sky if the chapter is naive/delusional enough). The Chicago Brotherhood learns of a ‘Holy City’ where flight was birthed and worshiped at a ‘Holy Air Base.’ The Chapter would take it’s proudest forces and equipment to claim their perceived Holy Land, the city of Dayton, OH and Wright-Patterson Air Base. Upon arrival, the Chicago chapter realized that the city was already claimed by other forces. Believing that their God (or Gods) was on their side, the Chicago Brotherhood launched an attack for Dayton. Time would pass, and no gains were made by the Brotherhood, revealing a dirty truth that this chapter was not as dominant and guided by God(s) as they thought they were. They also had to accept that an enemy force with Wright-Patterson could challenge their tactical and spiritual hold on the sky. Upon tactical reevaluation, the Chicago chapter noticed that the enemy forces were sending extra soldier South of the battle. The chapter correctly guessed that their enemies were moving to encircle them and stop their Midwestern gains. In response, the Brotherhood would send it’s own forces South to try to counter-encircle the enemy. Both forces, evenly matched and evenly stretching their lines would finally hit the Ohio River. Both sides were stuck countering the influence of the other, eventually both would settle in to starve the other one out around Cincinnati. The Chicago Brotherhood had their work cut out for them, for they would be facing off against.....
-The Enclave After the events of Fallout 2, the Enclave would need to rebuild. Bases of theirs lying in ruins, groups deserting them, Enclave members being hunted down for justice, profit, and fun. The situation looked dire for most. That was until a Mr. John Henry Eden gave orders to regroup and rebuild in the Capitol wasteland. Most Enclave members saw the writing on the wall, and decided that the move East would be better than death. This is where I believe that a certain group of the Enclave would be moving east, eventually stumbling upon Dayton & Wright-Patterson. This group of the Enclave didn’t feel like moving on past this treasure trove would be a smart idea, so the group settled there. Now I was thinking that the leader of this Enclave chapter would eventually get all high and mighty, thus proclaiming that the Dayton Enclave was the true enclave, that their leader was the rightful President, and that Eden and his Capitol Wasteland Enclave was not legitimate. The Dayton Enclave President swore an oath of duty to reunite the Enclave under him, and to invade and conquer the Capitol for their own state. While the older and higher up ranks supported the grand plan, younger officers and cadets had an uneasy feeling over these plans. Some would even go as far to talk about open rebellion and, even possibly, a return to democratic institutions and rules. (I would love to see a quest line where you can influence the Enclave and chose between a status-quo Enclave or a democratic Enclave. However, just because a bad guy says that they’re good now, it does not mean that they will be seen by the people as a good guy now). All of this would have to wait though, as a new enemy has arrived on this Enclave chapter’s borders. In less than an hour after their arrival, the enemy began a siege on the Enclave’s Wright-Patterson base. The Enclave was caught completely off guard, as none of the higher ups believed that ‘No savages of this region could possibly learn how to fly and professionally fight.’ After the initial chaos, the Enclave was able to get their air force up and defending their positions. Amid the siege and dogfights, the Enclave would learn of the name of their ‘new’ enemy: The Brotherhood. The Enclave officers had been both right and wrong. The Brotherhood was not a savage of this region, as they had fought against them in California. They were still in this region though, and they were able to put up an actual fight. Realizing the direness of getting stuck in a constant siege, the Enclave came up with a plan to hopefully solve all their problems. If the Enclave forces could just encircle the Brotherhood forces, then they could possibly cut their supply lines while also conquering lands to keep the Brotherhood from moving any further into Ohio, as well as a start on the Dayton Enclave’s Eastern March to take DC. Their forces moved south, only for the Brotherhood to match their moves to the south. The Enclave tried again, only to meet the same results. This began a race south to try to get under the other army. Evenly they moved along, until both forces hit the Ohio River. While some war-hawks within the Enclave ranks wanted to move into Cincinnati to try to gain the upper hand, the Dayton Chapter President refused, wishing to focus on the Brotherhood and the eventual Eastern March. Unfortunately, the Enclave and the Brotherhood had moved their battlegrounds too close to Cincinnati, and soon, a new force would join the fight.....
NEW FACTIONS:
-The Republic of the Ohio Cincinnati was not spared from the horrors of nuclear hellfire. Being a city with a large amount of manufacturing, commerce, transportation, and nuclear refinement will tend to put you on list for enemy nuclear destruction. As such, Cincinnati has seen better days. It is not 2077 anymore though, and the city has learned to heal. Emerging from vaults long after Nuclear War, but long before the time of this game, a new generation of citizens of Cincinnati began the process of rebuilding. In the beginning, many factions arose, with no central authority. Chaos and violence ruled the scorched streets. Eventually, due to raiders and instability, multiple governing groups formed trade pacts and alliances. These districts would eventually merge due to the economic ties to create the city of Cincinnati once more. While not all districts complied willingly, Cincinnati would continue to grow through a combination of economic ties and small military missions. With trade being such a central idea to the culture of the city, Cincinnati began to work out deals with even more areas that weren’t even part of the Cincinnati Districts. Around this time, the wealth inequality within the city began to grow faster and faster. More individuals were gearing up to meet more locals to enact more trade, of which some profits would go to line the pockets of these traders. Soon, the very well off individuals were producing shipping vessels on the Ohio River. While this meant that Cincinnati could spread it’s wings further, it also meant that more and more land on the river was being gobbled by those who already owned the majority. Nevertheless, the city would continue to work with the ultra rich to expand. By this point, many districts were starting to look worse compared to how they were doing before the city united. Since the city had been set up loosely, it had become a confederation in principle. As such, many districts were on the cusp of declaring their freedom once more. To quell any chance of District independence, the then Mayor of Cincinnati declared the ‘Republic of the Ohio.’ On one side of things, the new government better reflected the new growth on the Ohio River by recognizing new lands as different territories instead of new additions to the city. On the other side, the Republic was formed as a new government level to force territories looking for freedom back into the greater system. While the Districts could still leave the city of Cincinnati, they would still be stuck inside the Republic of the Ohio. The Republic was based off of the government of the pre-war USA, in which succession was illegal and punishable. Not everyone listened, and soon, the poorer districts declared a counter-government to recognize the ‘forgotten man.’ The Republic did not tolerate this, and swept through the districts, taking out any opposition that could be found. It was after this point, very early on in the new republic, that the government tightened the rules until the Republic was only a republic in name. Yes, the freedoms of speech and religion and the right to vote would still exist. But if you did not worship and speak of the Republic in the ‘correct way,’ you might have just found yourself stuck in social shaming and potential revenge. And while you could vote, it mattered not as everyone knew who the ‘winners’ would be. As the Republic embraced a darker side, it began to feel the drawbacks of it’s actions. Social services and protections offered by the state declined more and more, as politicians were more focused on the pay and helping their families. It was very clear that the rich of the republic had it all, while the poor never recovered from the District disassembly and forced reintegration. The Elite cared little though, as the republic grew it’s trading operations further up and down the River. Life was good enough. Or so it seemed until the scouts of the Republic brought news one day. Advanced groups with flying weaponry were moving south, towards the Republic itself. The President of the Ohio makes the call to send all forces to defend the northern walls. Little did they know that they had weakened another front, and a force moving from the South East to meet that weakened border. Known only in the region as a rumor, they are.....
-The Kanawha Coalition Nuclear War came a little bit later for the land of West Virginia, but when it came, it left it’s mark. West Virginia was spared from the worse in 2077, leaving behind a land with great potential. While violence and death was nothing foreign to the WV Wastelanders, it was comparatively tame versus the surrounding states. Eventually, a vault filled with Dwellers opened up. These pioneers would bring about change to the region, leading to more factions showing interest in the region. The population boomed, and it looked as if the region could sustain a form of civilization. Then the bombs came again, and again, and again. The new people of WV were not all as valorous and good-hearted as it seemed they would be. West Virginia was home to a series of active nuclear missile silos. Taking advantage of the chaos that comes with societal formation, certain individuals made their way to these silo sites to bring about new nuclear devastation. So quickly was the flame of law, order, and civilization sniffed out by nuclear destruction. Many would die, possibly even more than the amount of West Virginians killed in the actual war. Many more would just up and leave the lands, hoping to find a better home outside of WV. What was left after the first round of deaths and departures was a network of abandoned communities and other forgotten homesteads. The structures left behind would decay and fall apart, bits flying away along the wind. The locals that stayed were also forced to increase their mineral stripping and scavenging to build better homes, able to stand up to the toxicity of the region. Most of these were in vain, however, as the other survivors of the region were usually the ones still launching the weapons. Many years would pass with this pattern still going the same, only the Earth around them changing. While WV had been polluted even before the war, the leftover junk combined with the constant nuclear war brought the region to a new low. But at it’s lowest, WV would find a solution. Slowly, the psychopathic souls who had fired the weapons became bored of tormenting the region. The nukes were becoming a thing of the past, now the region could focus on the other problems that plagued everyday life. Those issues that had been put to the side were finally in full view. And that view was of a homeland soured by nuclear fires and other pollutants. The people had enough of their rotting home, so they elected to meet and discuss a solution. The meeting brought together a handful of tribes that had somehow survived. Many attending the meeting were no longer human, as the radiation had ghoulified a vast amount of the populace. While most regions struggled with the ostracism of ghouls, many humans within West Virginia had either accepted them or had learnt to tolerate them enough to not cause too much damage. While some grudges still seep into social arrangements, the ghoul-human relations are comparatively better to most other societies. The tribes of ghouls and humans came together to unify, creating a coalition of the West Virginian tribes. The elders of each tribe created a council to organize and direct new objectives for the willing locals. It was decided that the tribes would forgo the technologies that brought about the conditions that they lived in. They would focus their efforts on peace and harmony with the lands that had been ruined, with the eventual goal of creating an ecologically sustainable homeland. In an effort to rebrand the region and connect with a people who focused on the Earth, the coalition would begin to refer to the lands of West Virginia as Kanawha. Consequently, the coalition would eventually come to be known as the Kanawha Coalition. Time would pass and Mother Earth would heal... somewhat. After a long period of partial success, the council would meet and make a drastic choice. No longer would they toil to make a broken land heal, a new, better land would be searched out. The tribes packed up and began a long march towards a new home. A rumored land of a city that continued to kill Mother Earth with no punishments. Now, it was time to punish the wrongdoers and take their lands triumphantly.
WHY SET IT BETWEEN 2248 AND 2252: The main reason I feel like this time period would work is due to the events between FO2&3. According to the DC Brotherhood in 3, the Chicago Brotherhood had gone silent by the time of their eastern journey. It also fits due to the Enclave moving East as well. As such, 2248-52 seems late enough for the Enclave to get out East, while being early enough for the Chicago Brotherhood to disappear by 54/55.
THANK YOU FOR READING THIS, I’M SORRY IF I MISTYPED ANYTHING OR SOMETHING DIDN’T MAKE SENSE.

The story of Carl Icahn and how he built one of the most successful hedge funds in the world

[Unresolved Murder] When 24-year-old Mitrice Richardson went missing, was it due to a mental break - or something more sinister?

So I am extremely intrigued by the Mitrice Richardson case, as I feel like there is just something "off" about it. I've been thinking about posting about it for a while. I did just see a new post this morning with a theory, and figured I'd run through the entire case again to hear what people have to think. I'm not used to this so please be gentle! This is also going to be a long one, so strap in!
I am struggling to get the formatting to work correctly so I apologize.
Mitrice Lavon Richardson was born in 1985 to Latice Sutton and Michael Richardson, though she was raised by Latice and Mitrice's stepfather, Larry. From a younger age, she was extremely drawn to psychology and the way the human brain worked. Mitrice grew up in West Covina, CA and later attended Cal State - Fullerton to pursue her BA in psychology. She was the first person in her family to attend college.
As she approached the end of her undergraduate career, Mitrice decided that she might want to pursue graduate school. During this time, she was dating her girlfriend, Tessa, and also go-go dancing at a lesbian bar.
Leading up to her disappearance, there are conflicting reports on whether or not Mitrice had been acting unusual. According to Crime Junkie, Tessa adamantly opposes the idea that Mitrice was in any way mentally ill or erratic. However, both Crime Junkie and Trace Evidence acknowledge that Mitrice had been sending strange text messages and posting weird posts on social media at all times of the night.
At some point in the investigation, officers also found erratic journal entries where the writing switched from clean and neat, to staggered and illegible, within the same pages, sometimes the same sentences.
Whether or not she had bipolar disorder is also a point of contention. NBC Los Angeles states that she was diagnosed. I have seen some articles state that she was diagnosed, and that her mother admitted this. But other articles, like this one from Fox LA state that family members state that she had no mental health problems.
However, regardless of whether or not she had bipolar disordea diagnosis, I do believe that she was struggling with mental illness in some way. But did this have to do with her death?
On September 16, 2009, Mitrice was driving down the Pacific Coast Highway when she decided to stop at Geoffrey's in Malibu. She got out of her car to wait for the valet - in his car, mumbling about avenging Michael Jackson's death. When she went inside, the valet informed the host that she was acting strangely.
Mitrice sat alone, drinking a cocktail and eating a steak. But then she randomly joined another table of 7 people. She talked quickly about astrology, even mentioning that she was from Mars. At the end of the meal, the other people left. When Mitrice tried to leave, she was stopped and told to pay the $89 bill. Despite the fact that money was later found in her purse, Mitrice told the restaurant that she had no money and thought the table would pay for her.
The manager called Mitrice's great-grandmother Mildred, who agreed to pay the bill. However, the manager refused to take her credit card number over the phone. Eventually, one of the employees called the police. On the phone call, the woman stated, "We have a guest here who is refusing to pay her bill. She sounds really crazy. She may be on drugs."
At approximately 9pm, officers from the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Department Malibu/Lost Hills Sheriff's Station showed up at Geoffrey's to arrest Mitrice. Officers searched her car and found a small amount of marijuana. LA Mag, who has one of the most comprehensive write-ups of this case I've seen, also notes that the police found partially drunken bottles of alcohol in her car, but I have not seen that anywhere else.
Because employees at Geoffrey's didn't think Mitrice was okay enough to drive, and because of the marijuana, officers performed a field sobriety test. Mitrice passed. Officers do not report finding a wallet, money, or even cell phone in the car. Although the employees at Geoffrey's considered paying Mitrice's bill for her, to avoid her being taken into police custody, they were worried about her mental health and her ability to drive. So they let her be taken away by the police, as the manager chose to press charges.
As this was going on, Mildred called Latice. Immediately, Latice was concerned about how strange her daughter was acting. She called the Lost Hills station and was assured that Mitrice was being carefully watched by the officers. It was late at night by this time and Latice wasn't sure if she should pick her daughter up; the officer assured her that Mitrice would be in custody until morning, so Latice could pick her up then.
According to LA Mag, Latice told the officer, "I think the only way I will come and get her tonight is if you guys are going to release her tonight. She's not from that area and I would hate to wake up to a morning report, 'girl lost somewhere with her head chopped off.'"
Here's what we know.
Mitrice's car was impounded. Mitrice was taken to Lost Hills station, about 25 miles away from Geoffrey's. Law enforcement could have held her under the belief that she might hurt herself or others.
Despite conflicting reports, law enforcement officers state Mitrice was fine. Mitrice was released from custody between 12:15am and 1:25am on September 17. When released, she had no wallet or cell phone.
She used a phone at the station to try and call Mildred. LE states she called 4 times and they heard a conversation. Mildred says she never received a phone call. All phone calls (if any) were made from a non-recorded line.
Mitrice was charged with marijuana possession and defrauding an officer. Because she had no prior record, she was let go with a fine and court date. Officers refused to drive her back to her car (8-13 miles away). Officers told her she could sleep in the lobby until morning. One jailer claims Mitrice said she was meeting friends.
In an article for CBS News, sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore stated, "She exhibited no signs of mental illness or intoxication. She was fine. She's an adult."
Mitrice walked into the night, in an unfamiliar area, with no car, wallet, or phone. When Latice called the station the next morning around 5:30am, she was told that her daughter was gone. She asked about filing a missing persons report, but was told it was too soon. Latice told the deputy she was worried about her daughter's mental state, that she might be depressed.
Somewhere between 5:30am and 6:30am, Bill Smith called the Lost Hills station to report a young black women "prowling" around his home in Monte Nido (about 6 miles away from the station). Bill reports that when he asked the woman how she was doing, she replied that she was OK, just resting. Then she disappeared into the night.
Now here's where the Lost Hills station begins to look more and more fishy.
It took 2 days before Lost Hills officers started searching for Mitrice...at Bill Smith's house. Officers declined to use scent tracking dogs that would tell them how Mitrice got from Lost Hills station to Monte Nido.
Officers found shoe prints. It looked like Mitrice was walking, then had suddenly started running towards Dark Creek and Dark Canyon. Officers did not search Dark Creek or Dark Canyon at the time.
Mitrice's case was reassigned twice: first to the LAPD's Missing Persons Unit, then to LAPD's Robbery-Homicide Unit. LAPD officers determined that Mitrice had a manic episode caused by bipolar disorder. When LAPD officers searched her car, they found her wallet, cell phone, ATM card, and enough money to cover her meal - despite the fact that the LASD stated they found nothing.
3 days after her disappearance, the Lost Hills Lieutenant sent out an email about Mitrice, which LA Mag got a hold of. In the email, Lieutenant Scott Chew addresses Captain Thomas Martin, noting that Mitrice was brought in because "[Loureiro] felt she was acting unusual and was uneasy about letting her go. In the end, [Loureiro] brought her because of his instincts. The fact that she disappeared validated his instinct.”
Since then, Chew stated that he did not remember writing the email, or maybe didn't write it at all. Loureiro stated that he never actually had that conversation or asked for a sobriety test for Mitrice. For the next month or so, the LASD frequently spoke to the media to reaffirm that Mitrice had been fine.
Latice then asked for the footage of Mitrice at the station, hoping to get insight into her daughter's condition. She was told that no footage existed. 4 months later, she was told that there was actually a video...but due to "technical difficulties," it took ANOTHER 3 months for the family to receive it.
In the video (which was edited), Mitrice seems agitated, pulling on her hair and on the bars. When she is finally released, the video shows Mitrice walking out the door...with a deputy following quickly after. The police department refused to name the officer or state if he had any contact with Mitrice outside of the station.
In January, there were immense searches of Malibu Canyon; no body was found, and Lost Hills officers refuse to say whether or not they checked Dark Canyon. As time went on, there were some supposed sightings of Mitrice in Las Vegas, in a casino or working as a prostitute. But Latice says she knew her daughter was still somewhere where she went missing. Unfortunately, she was right.
11 months after her disappearance, Mitrice's mummified remains were found in Dark Canyon by rangers, only 8 miles from the Lost Hills station and 2 miles from where she was last seen. You can see the map to get a better idea.
Again, here's where it gets weird.
Mitrice was found naked. Some of her clothes were recovered a few hundred feet away in positions that did not suggest animal involvement. Her bra was unclasped. Her belt was unclasped and removed. Her jeans were unzipped.
An earring that she had not been wearing at the time of her disappearance was stuck in her hair.
Her right leg, with the femur removed, was located 6 feet upslope from her body. Her body, clothes, and leg showed no signs of animal involvement, biting, trauma, etc. Five neck bones were never found.
Mitrice's left arm was tightly flexed over her chest, indicating that she mummified in that unnatural position.
Rangers called in the dead body. Around 1.5 hours later, a Lost Hills deputy (unidentified) arrived on scene. Policy and state codes say that the coroner must be contacted immediately upon finding remains. It took 1.5 additional hours, after the deputy arrived, to call the coroner.
The coroner and his team were told that a LASD helicopter would pick them up and bring them to the body. 2-3 hours later, they were told that the LASD would remove the body instead. Against the wishes of the coroner, the LASD collected the remains and took them back to the Lost Hills station, breaking policy.
Sheriffs took no photographs of the scene, failed to collect soil samples, and did not document the process of recovering Mitrice's remains. When asked, sheriffs stated they pulled on the skull and the entire skeleton appeared. This is untrue, as her skull was detached from her neck.
The LASD stated that they believed no crime had been committed. Rather, they posited that Mitrice had been bitten by a rattlesnake or possibly had a fatal allergic reaction to poison oak. They stated that Mitrice must have been naked because animals ripped her clothes off, but this directly contrasts how neatly the clothes were removed, the fact that the clothes and body show no tooth marks, and that her clothes were scattered around the canyon.
Additionally:
If animals had torn off her clothing, where were her shoes and socks, shirts, and underwear?
Why were her clothes so clean, with no evidence of animal bites or even dirt from nature? One forensic anthropologist believes the clothes might have been removed from the scene and cleaned.
Why was Mitrice mummified and not totally decomposed if she had been exposed to the elements for 11 months?
What caused her left arm to be flexed? Could she have been tied up while mummification occurred?
When the animal theory didn't pan out, the LASD changed their statement, saying that her clothes were removed by running water. But for this to be possible, the creek would have needed to rise by 60 feet, and her body would have needed to float against the current.
Next came a series of infuriating mistakes from the coroner's office:
The coroner did not test hair found on the ground and compare it to Mitrice's hair to see if someone else was present. The earring was never tested. Bug casings on Mitrice's body were never tested. Dirt and leaves from the scene were never tested.
No craniotomy was performed to identify potential blunt force trauma. It took weeks to find Mitrice's clothes at the coroner's office; they were shoved into the bottom of a bag. Mitrice's pubic hair and clothes were not tested for semen, fibers, or hair.
Altogether, the LASD only searched the scene twice: once when Mitrice's body was found, and again 6 months later. Some of her remains are still missing. Her teeth were slightly pink, indicating strangulation, but no determination can be made without the missing hyoid bone from her neck.
So what happened to Mitrice?
(1) She was experiencing some sort of psychosis or manic episode, whether from bipolar, schizophrenia, or another mental illness. Because of this, she was able to get to the specific area of the canyon, remove her clothing, and succumbed to the elements. The LASD, though sketchy, did not play a role in her death. They just didn't care that much about a black woman in a predominantly white area.
(2) Mitrice was going through some sort of mental health crisis. Officers of the LASD believed that they could take advantage of her in some way, probably sexually. After she was released, the LASD contributed to her getting to Monte Nido and then to her death. They cleaned up and either hid the body, or dumped it but led others away from the area, then continually prevented the investigation from proceeding.
(3) Some third party (another person, a group of people) contributed to Mitrice's death. Because of LE's clear negligence, and Mitrice's mental illness, no third party was ever searched for.
I personally believe that the LASD did have a hand in Mitrice's death. I believe that one, or multiple, officers offered her a ride. I believe that she was sexually assaulted. But I'm unclear if, after this, LE killed her or she wandered off on her own, where she died. What are your thoughts? Curious to see what everyone else thinks.
Additional Articles: LA Mag & Wikipedia

What's Happening in CT: 8/26 - 8/30

Thursday, August 27th:

Drive-In Movie Night: "Space Jam", August 27 Swackhammer, an evil alien theme park owner, needs a new attraction at Moron Mountain. When his gang, the Nerdlucks, heads to Earth to kidnap Bugs Bunny and the Looney Tunes, Bugs challenges them to a basketball game to determine their fate. The aliens agree, but they steal the powers of NBA basketball players, including Larry Bird and Charles Barkley, so Bugs gets some help from superstar Michael Jordan. Rated PG, The Shops at Farmington Valley, 110 Albany Tpke. Canton, 8:45pm, $25 per car

Friday, August 28th:

Summer Concert Series, August 28 Friday night summer music series, a seasonal tradition of music, food and wine. Stonington Vineyards welcomes the area's best acts for a relazing evening of music on the outdoor patio. Guests are invited to bring lawn chairs, blankets and light bites to enjoy. Reservations must be purchased in advance. No admissions at the door. Whisker Fish, GIRLS ON THE RUN, Stonington Vineyards, 523 Taugwonk Rd. Stonington, CT , 6PM-9PM, $10
Drive-In Movie Night: "Shazam!", August 28 A boy is given the ability to become an adult superhero in times of need with a single magic word. Rated PG-13, The Shops at Farmington Valley, 110 Albany Tpke. Canton, CT, 8:45pm, $25 per car.
Twilight Concerts on the Farm, August 28th, The Tom Petty Project Impacting the course of Rock n Roll history, Tom Petty’s roots-rock guitar sound rose from the new-wave moment in the late 1970’s. Hits like “Free Fallin,” “Last Dance with Mary Jane,” “I Won’t Back Down,” “Learning to Fly” and so many more are ingrained in music history. The Tom Petty Project is a project of musicians from several bands in NY and CT who have come together to celebrate the music of Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. “We do our best to represent the music of one of the best songwriters and bands the world has ever known.” Members include: Pete Najarian (Lead Vocals and Guitar), Phil Lopresti (Lead Guitar and Backing Vocals), Scott Persson (Drums and Backing Vocals), Mark Bridgman (Bass and Backing Vocals), and Glenn Cavazzi (Keyboards).Located at South Farms, the show takes place on over 10 acres of manicured farmland. The venue boasts a beautifully structured grid layout, adhering to public health guidelines while still maintaining the intimacy of live concerts. The vast spacing and outdoor conditions (open air) help reduce potential transmission and encourage social distancing. Guests are welcome to bring lawn chairs and blankets for comfortable seating and enjoying the farm field. Outside food and beverages are prohibited. Food trucks and a full bar will be available on site. Masks are not required within the guest grid. Hand sanitizing stations will be dispersed throughout the venue. High-touch areas such as door handles, counter surfaces will be regularly and consistently disinfected throughout the show. Restrooms will be cleaned and restocked regularly throughout the show. Everyone entering the venue, including guests, artists, crew and staff will be health checked including a temperature check and short questionnaire. Presented by the Palace Theater of Waterbury, Premier Concerts and Manic Presents. South Farms, 21 Higbie Rd, Morris, CT, 5pm, $20

Saturday, August 29th:

Corn Maze: "Thank You Our Heroes", August 29 - November 1 Theme: “Thank You Our Heroes,” an appreciation for our Frontline Workers. The iconic Statue of Liberty, a symbol that unites all Americans, is adorned with a giant Heart, the symbol that universally stands for our show of thanks and appreciation for our Frontline Workers during this COVID-19 coronavirus pandemic. You will learn about nurses, medical professionals, EMT’s, fire fighters, charitable organizations, and more. The Corn Maze is four acres, and there is a total of one mile of paths and hundreds of decision points. There are 10 positions in the Maze which coincide with 10 multiple choice questions on a passport that guides the visitors, if you answer correctly you go the right way, if you answer incorrectly you get lost!. The passports have multiple themes, you can choose the subject that most interests you. We staff the Maze with Corn Cops who are there to assist as needed. The average time needed to navigate the entire Maze is 30-40 minutes. The Maze is interactive, engaging and fun for all ages. Donations This is our 21st Corn Maze. Since 2000, we have donated $1 of every ticket sold to the American Cancer Society. The accumulative total coming into this year is $623,315. In addition, this will be the first year that we will donate fifty cents of every ticket sold to the Connecticut Cancer Foundation. Lyman Orchards, 32 Reeds Gap Rd. Middlefield, CT, Mon.-Fri. 1 p.m.-6 p.m.; Sat.-Sun. & holidays 10 a.m.-6 p.m. Last tickets sold and entry of the day is 5:30 p.m. I can't seem to find a price.
Red Barn Live: A Drive-In Live Music Concert, August 29 Grab your quaranteam and head to the farm for a night of live music as the sun sets! Just like a drive-in movie but instead of a film, live covers of your favorite hits will accompany you on one of the last evenings of summer. BYO food, beverages and comfy accessories to make your popped trunk, truck bed, car roof or front seats feel like box seats at Madison Square Garden. Headliner John Torres of the band Color Fields is a native of Bridgeport who grew up listening to artists like Cat Stevens, Crosby, Stills, Nash, & Young, Jim Croce, and The Beatles. John began songwriting while at Carleton College in Northfield, MN, and has spent the last 3 years crafting a sound that is entirely his own. His music has been described as soulful, honest, playful, and tormented. Mr. Know It All, a classic rock band with Fairfield roots, and a great friend of the farm, will open the show at 5 p.m. with their covers of your favorite Hard Rock, Classic Rock, and 1990s bands. Parking has been set up to allow for six feet distancing between cars to ensure a safe and serene night in front of the Red Barn. We ask that everyone remain in/on their vehicles for the duration of the concert, if you do need to move about outside your cars, masks are required. Pre-registration is required and all proceeds directly benefit the farm. Red Barn at Ambler Farm, 257 Hurlbutt St. Wilton, CT, Doors open at 4 p.m., concert 5 p.m.-9 p.m., $100 per car.
Fairfield Comedy Presents: Krystyna Hutchinson, August 29 An outdoor, live stand-up comedy at Circle Hotel's backyard. Bring your chairs, blankets, and picnic and bring your appetite for laughter. Circle Hotel Fairfield, 417 Post Rd. Fairfield, CT, 5:30 p.m. & 7:30 p.m., $25-$35
Priam Vineyards Comedy Night, August 29 Phase out of quarantine and enjoy a safe, socially distant, outdoor comedy show. The show will take place on the spacious patio area. There will also be a tented area to accommodate safe distancing while seated, as well as the vineyard lawn. All public areas will be cleaned, wiped, and sanitized regularly as per state mandate. Come early and take advantage of food truck to enjoy dinner before the show. First glass of wine is included with the ticket. NO LIQUIDS OF ANY KIND are permitted to be brought onsite. Wine by the bottle and glass will be available to order at the bar. Seating is provided, or bring your own chair or blanket for the lawn. For more information, Priamvineyards.com Join us for an unforgettable evening of laughing and drinking, featuring some of the funniest and most talented comics from all over the northeast. The Comedy Craft Beer Tour brings the best of Northeast comedy to local breweries, wineries, and any other venue that serves alcohol throughout New England and beyond for an evening that keeps the drinks flowing, and the laughs coming. The comics have done comedy all over the globe and now bring their experiences to some of the best local venues around for an intimate evening of laughs, drinks, food, and fun. We provide the absolute funniest comedy around, featuring comics w/ television and movie credits, who perform at the major clubs and festivals throughout the country, and are some of the brightest stars of today and tomorrow. Priam Vineyards, 11 Shailor Hill Rd. Colchester, CT, 6:30-8:30, $30
Film: "Aladdin", August 29 Enjoy classic films on the Kate’s big screen, with surround sound, in a physically distanced and safe environment. Details on what the Kate is doing to keep you safe can be found at www.thekate.org Aladdin, a street-smart commoner, pairs up with clever, confident Princess Jasmine to fight against the evil sorcerer Jafar and foil his plans of taking over the kingdom. Along the way, Aladdin learns to believe in himself...with the help of a comical, shape-shifting Genie whose three wishes can change everything. Katharine Hepburn Cultural Arts Center, 300 Main St. Old Saybrook, CT, 7pm, Adults $10, children $5.
Drive-In Movie Night: "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban", August 29 Harry, Ron and Hermione return to Hogwarts for another magic-filled year. Harry comes face to face with danger yet again, this time in the form of escaped convict, Sirius Black, and turns to sympathetic Professor Lupin for help. Rated PG, The Shops at Farmington Valley, 110 Albany Tpke. Canton, CT, 8:45pm, $25 per car

Sunday, August 30th:

Twilight Concerts on the Farm, August 30, Nikki Glaser Show features comedian Nikki Glaser. Nikki Glaser is one of the funniest female voices in comedy today. For over a decade at clubs across the country, and as the host of three hit podcasts, she has been honing her shockingly-honest, no-holds barred style of comedy. You can currently find Nikki flexing her over-sharing muscle as the host of Comedy Central’s first live daily morning show, YOU UP WITH NIKKI GLASER for SiriusXM, which is entirely female-produced. Nikki’s recent Netflix comedy special, BANGIN’, was released October 2019. BANGIN’ was the most watched Netflix special of the month and VULTURE included it on their “10 Best Comedy Specials of 2019” year-end list. In late January, she kicked off her nationwide comedy tour, BANG IT OUT! Previously, Nikki hosted, co-created and executive produced thecritically-acclaimedand daring comedic show, NOT SAFE WITH NIKKI GLASER, for Comedy Central and NIKKI & SARA LIVE for MTV. Nikki was a standout at the Comedy Central Roasts of Alec Baldwin, Bruce Willis and Rob Lowe, and has had memorable film and television roles in Judd Apatow’s TRAINWRECK, NBC’s AP BIO and INSIDE AMY SCHUMER, amongst others. Nikki has multiple stand-up specials and late-night tv appearances in which she jokes about her most humiliating moments as a woman in the modern world. Nikki’s past and current struggles with anorexia, depression, and anxiety are fair game in both her stand-up, and in in-depth interviews with THE HOWARD STERN SHOW, WTF WITH MARC MARON and JOE ROGAN. She has become a complete open book on mic -and not just for the laughs, she’s also adamant on being the empowering voice for women that she yearned for as a young, confused, adolescent herself. Located at South Farms, the show takes place on over 10 acres of manicured farmland. The venue boasts a beautifully structured grid layout, adhering to public health guidelines while still maintaining the intimacy of live concerts. The vast spacing and outdoor conditions (open air) help reduce potential transmission and encourage social distancing. Guests are welcome to bring lawn chairs and blankets for comfortable seating and enjoying the farm field. Outside food and beverages are prohibited. Food trucks and a full bar will be available on site. Masks are not required within the guest grid. Hand sanitizing stations will be dispersed throughout the venue. High-touch areas such as door handles, counter surfaces will be regularly and consistently disinfected throughout the show. Restrooms will be cleaned and restocked regularly throughout the show. Everyone entering the venue, including guests, artists, crew and staff will be health checked including a temperature check and short questionnaire. Presented by the Palace Theater of Waterbury, Premier Concerts and Manic Presents. South Farms, 21 Higbie Rd. Morris, CT, 5:30 & 9pm, $100,
Dave Attell, August 30 He’s New York City’s hardest-working comic and he’s bringing a night of laughs to The Playhouse with an outdoor show on the field next to the Playhouse. Dave Attell earned a cult following with his Comedy Central hit Insomniac with Dave Attell. He has worked alongside some of the biggest names in comedy including Adam Sandler (his old friend from their NYU days) in Judd Apatow’s Funny People, he also starred alongside Amy Schumer in her hit films Trainwreck and I Feel Pretty. Dave can also be seen on HBO’s critically acclaimed series Crashing with Pete Holmes. His stand up series, Dave Attell’s Comedy Underground and his one hour special Road Work were featured on Comedy Central and Road Work is now streaming on Netflix. His film credits also include Chris Rock’s cult film Pootie Tang and his television credits include some of the best in comedy including The Simpsons, Difficult People, Bob’s Burgers, Arrested Development, The Jim Gaffigan Show, The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, Inside Amy Schumer, Everybody Loves Raymond, Louie, Tough Crowd with Colin Quinn and the list goes on. Fellow comics Patton Oswalt and Bill Burr have hailed him as the greatest off-color comedian alive. He’s a master of the one-liner, and no one is safe from Dave’s comedy. Ridgefield Playhouse, 80 East Ridge Rd. 80 East Ridge, Ridgefield, CT, 7pm, $45
Drive-In Movie Night: "Ocean's Eleven", August 30 Less than 24 hours into his parole, charismatic thief Danny Ocean is already rolling out his next plan: In one night, Danny’s hand-picked crew of specialists will attempt to steal more than $150 million from three Las Vegas casinos. But to score the cash, Danny risks his chances of reconciling with ex-wife, Tess. Rated PG-13, The Shops at Farmington Valley, 110 Albany Tpke. Canton, CT, 8:45pm, $25 per car

FIND MORE THINGS TO DO HERE, STAY SAFE, SOCIAL DISTANCE, WEAR MASKS, AND HAVE A NICE WEEKEND!

https://www.ctvisit.com/events

Wrestling Observer Rewind ★ Jan. 28, 2002

Going through old issues of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter and posting highlights in my own words. For anyone interested, I highly recommend signing up for the actual site at f4wonline and checking out the full archives.
PREVIOUSLY: The Complete Wrestling Observer Rewind 1991-2001


1-7-2002	1-14-2002	1-21-2002	★

NJPW was thrown into chaos this week when Keiji Muto, Satoshi Kojima, and IWGP Jr. Heavyweight champion Kendo Kashin all abruptly quit the company, along with 5 of NJPW's front office employees, and are headed to AJPW. Needless to say, this immediately killed the working relationship between the two companies and NJPW is already attempting to forge a new partnership with NOAH. There's also said to be a significant power struggle within NJPW right now behind the scenes that will likely be straightened out whenever Inoki returns to Japan (he's in Los Angeles right now). Tatsumi Fujinami is NJPW president but in the wake of losing these big stars, and the disappointing TV ratings for the Jan. 4th show, it's rumored his days may be numbered. There's rumors that Inoki may take over the role for the first time since he was forced out of the position back in 1983 (long story, bunch of financial scandals, Google is your friend here). Muto is currently half of the IWGP tag team champions and they were scheduled to defend the titles next month and he volunteered to still work the show, but NJPW wasn't having that so that won't be happening now and the titles will instead be vacated, along with the Jr. title Kashin held. And of course, the IWGP title is also currently vacant due to Fujita's injury, so all of NJPW's top titles are vacant right now (the only other active title is the Jr. tag belts, held by Gedo and Jado).
Lots of rumors floating around about how this happened, but the gist appears to be that Hiroshi Hase was the architect (no Seth) behind this whole thing. Reportedly, Muto (and maybe some of the other people who left) may be purchasing a stake of AJPW from Motoko Baba so he'll have some ownership say. The long-term idea is that Mrs. Baba will step down in a few years and Muto, who by then should be ready to retire (lol) will take over the role as AJPW president. Of course, that was the original plan for Misawa after Giant Baba died, but he and Motoko Baba couldn't get along and Misawa eventually left and formed NOAH instead. It's also worth noting that Kashin in particular wasn't thrilled about doing shoot fights while working in NJPW, but felt pressured to by Inoki and he reportedly wanted out of the company even if the AJPW thing hadn't been an option. As for Kojima, he and Tenzan have been the best tag team pro wrestling has seen in years and from an in-ring perspective, may have been the best pure worker in NJPW so his loss is going to hurt a lot too. The office workers who left are mostly accounting and merchandising people who will be doing the same jobs for AJPW.
One bummer of a note here is that, before this, Muto had talked of putting together a dream match against Misawa. But as long as Motoko Baba is breathing air, an AJPW star isn't going to work with Misawa, so that's probably a dead issue (yeah, sadly we never did get that match).
One final note: Muto also tried to recruit NJPW rising star Hiroshi Tanahashi, who most believe has the most potential of anyone in the entire company, to jump ship with him but Tanahashi decided to stay (oh man, can you imagine how different things would be if he had gone).
On Raw this week, Vince McMahon teased the impending arrival of Hall, Nash, and Hogan, saying he's going to do something soon that even he will regret. Vince has reportedly caved on most of Nash's demands, including the reduced schedule. Hall will be making less money than Nash and will be given an even lighter schedule, because he's a single parent with custody of his children (and Dave questions how fucked up Dana Hall must be if SCOTT is the one who has custody). And of course, you gotta figure Hogan ain't working a full schedule, since he hasn't done that in a decade and probably ain't gonna start now. Of course, this puts WWF in the same position WCW was in a few years ago: having all the top stars working TV and not appearing on house shows, which is something WWF used to openly mock WCW for. Now they'll be doing the same thing, with the same guys. It's something that killed WCW's house show business long before the TV ratings started going down. There's also the issue of how they'll get along backstage, since many of the agents (Dave says Gerald Brisco in particular) were very vocally against bringing these guys back. And then there's John Laurinaitis, who has a lot of power backstage now and he and Nash used to butt heads constantly in WCW. So things are gonna be interesting.
In a bit of a surprise, Vince has also agreed to let them use the NWO name and gimmick, and that reveal was made later in the week on Smackdown when Vince talked about killing the WWF with the help of the NWO. As of now, there's no plans for Triple H to join the group. X-Pac will probably find his way into it, given his relationship and history with the group. Nash is reportedly pushing for Shawn Michaels to be involved, but Dave has heard that's unlikely because there's still some fences that need to be mended there between Shawn and some in the company. But then again, Nash has gotten his way on everything else he's asked Vince for so far, so who knows? Anyway, Hall and Nash have officially signed, but Hogan still hasn't finalized his deal as of press time, but the office has been told it's inevitable and to start making plans as if he's signed. It's expected all 3 men will probably debut at the No Way Out PPV next month.

WATCH: Vince McMahon announces the arrival of the NWO

The Royal Rumble is in the books and was a huge success. Critically, it was an excellent show, nothing MOTY-worthy or anything, but nothing bad at all and was a legit sellout. Coming out of the show, it appears Chris Jericho will be defending the WWF title against Triple H at Wrestlemania, though that can still change. Triple H winning the Rumble was expected but made the most sense. The Rumble match lasted just over 69 minutes (nice), surpassing the 1993 Rumble and, as far as Dave is aware, making it the longest mach in WWF history (a famous Pedro Morales vs. Bruno Sammartino match in 1972 was reported in all the newspapers as lasting 75 minutes, but it was actually only 65 so don't come at Dave with no "well actually..." bullshit)
The return of Mr. Perfect and him being put over like a major star (he lasted until the final 4) proves that WWF has no intention of letting any other competitor get off the ground and will nip that in the bud before it ever happens. Hennig has been available for more that a year (WCW released him before they folded) and WWF never seemed interested, but as soon as XWF came along and made him their featured star (with plans to make him the face of the company), suddenly WWF swooped him up. Hennig's appearance was meant to be a one-off but it was known they were likely going to offer him a deal if he was impressive, and they have. It may not be a huge get for WWF, but it's a massive loss for XWF and pretty much renders their entire first set of TV tapings meaningless now, and Dave says that was precisely the point. Vince left the door open for competition once before and it nearly killed him. He won't make that mistake again (not until 2019 anyway). Dave says to let this be a lesson to any new promotion trying to start up: make sure you have people signed.
Other notes from Royal Rumble: Goldust, who was also a one-off for the match, is expected to sign a full-time deal as well. FlaiVince street fight was way better than it had any right to be considering it was between two guys over 50, one of whom isn't even a trained wrestler and the other hasn't wrestled in nearly a year since the final Nitro. Jericho retained the title over Rock in an excellent match and Dave notes that no one in the history of wrestling with the kind of main event star power Rock possesses has ever done as many jobs as him. Maven dropkicking Undertaker out of the Rumble match was the biggest pop of the entire show. But then Undertaker spent the next several minutes beating poor Maven nearly to death, lest anyone think Undertaker was actually trying to get this kid over or anything. Overall, Dave thinks it was the best Rumble match in several years.

WATCH: Maven eliminates Undertaker from the 2002 Royal Rumble

The tradition of Memphis wrestling on WMC-TV has been revived! Sorta. The show, dating back to the 70s, has been off the air since last spring when the TV station refused to allow them to tape shows in their studio anymore. For the next few months, they aired a bunch of "Best of" shows but those eventually stopped in December and they've been airing infomercials in that time slot ever since. But this week, a show featuring Jerry Lawler and Brian Christopher in the main event, taped at a nearby casino in Tunica, MS aired on the channel in the usual Saturday morning time slot. Dave says the production quality was garbage and there was no local publicity for it, so it probably did a terrible rating, but it's something (pretty much just one last dying gasp, this doesn't lead to anything).
Carlos Colon said he's going to cut back on being an active wrestler because he wants to spend more time with his kids. Dave points out that most of his kids are wrestlers in his company, so maybe he's actually trying to get away from them.
NJPW star Minoru Tanaka announced his engagement to former women's wrestler Yumi Fukawa, who retired last year (did some research and they're still married to this day. Tanaka still wrestles in NOAH and Fukawa is an actress in Japan).
Atsushi Onita, who has been issuing grandstand challenges to Antonio Inoki for months with no response, has now challenged Naoya Ogawa for a match and wants it to be a benefit show in Afghanistan for the kids there. Dave says don't hold your breath for that one either. Onita says if he beats Ogawa, he wants the match with Inoki. Again, none of this is happening, just Onita trying to work his own angle. Neither Inoki nor Ogawa want anything to do with him.
Goldberg participated in a charity golf tournament this week and while there, he made some comments about going to the WWF. "I personally believe that everything I've stood for when I got into the ring would be compromised and succumbed to the circus-like atmosphere that's out there, and that's putting it mildly. I would be an imbecile if I gave up half my money to work for a company I didn't respect." Dave wonders if his tune will change when that WCW contract money dries up (yup). Also, at the same tournament, they did a funny little angle with Goldberg throwing his caddie into a lake.

WATCH: Goldberg torpedoes his caddie into the lake

Superstar Billy Graham has reportedly lost nearly 60 pounds in just 3 weeks, most of it water weight due to edema he's suffering from and all the other liver issues he's currently dealing with.
Bruno Sammartino did an interview talking about the role he has in a new low-budget movie called Saloonatics where he plays a mob guy with cancer. Sammartino talked about how uncomfortable he was with all the profanity his character had to say but he eventually got more comfortable with it and was able to put aside his personal feelings and eventually was okay with it. (No idea where the full movie is, but here's a trailer and yeah this shit is LOOOOOOOW budget).

WATCH: Saloonatics trailer

Former WCW announcer Mark Madden is in some controversy in Pittsburgh, where he hosts a daily sports talk show on the local ESPN radio station there. A few weeks back, the sports media in the city was swirling with rumors about NFL star Kordell Stewart's sexuality. Madden went on his radio show and criticized people who were spreading those rumors. A writer who works at the radio station then went on the air and accused Madden of being one of the main people who fueled those rumors and claimed Madden had said things in the past on his show implying that Stewart is gay. Madden denied ever saying that, demanded the guy find the tapes to prove he ever said it, and basically felt like the guy ambushed him live on the air with the accusations. The radio station apparently agreed because the writer was fired when he refused to apologize (for what it's worth, several people have made accusations about Stewart being gay over the years and he's always denied them, and even successfully sued someone a few years ago for claiming he had a relationship with him. Who knows and who cares? Not anybody's business anyway).
Jake Roberts was on a radio talk show in England recently and said some interesting stuff. Said he plans to stay in the UK for the next 2 years. Said he could walk back into the WWF and have a writing job tomorrow if he wanted it. Dave scoffs at that and says I guess he prefers wrestling in front of empty indie show crowds in England instead of earning a steady paycheck. Jake also talked about the scene in Beyond The Mat where the movie alleges that Roberts asked an indie promoter for crack cocaine as his payoff for working the show. Roberts denied it happened and said he doesn't trust a promoter with anything, so he wouldn't trust one to get him crack. Well okay then. Claimed he left the WWF last time because he wasn't comfortable with the angle he was doing with Jerry Lawler, feeling like they were exploiting his sobriety. Dave pretty much rolls his eyes at all this, because Jake was actually fired for going on a bender and no-showing a bunch of events (I'm glad we all love Jake now, but he was still 1000% full of shit and off the deep end during this period).
Iron Shiek missed an appearance on the Opie & Anthony radio show this week because he was detained for several hours at the airport. Turns out he wore his curly toed wrestling boots on the plane and because this is 4 months after 9/11 and only 1 month after the attempted shoe-bomber, and let's be honest, simply because Iron Shiek is Middle Eastern, people freaked out. And when they wanted to examine his boots, he initially refused to let them and, well, you can imagine how well that went over with airport security.
If WWA's PPV in Las Vegas happens next month, Bret Hart has agreed to reprise his role as the on-screen commissioner. As best Dave can tell, no one else has really been signed on for the show and the MGM Grand doesn't know anything about this alleged plan to hold the event in their arena and in fact, WWA hasn't even applied with the Nevada commission to get a license to run a show anywhere in the state and it's almost certainly too late to get one by the scheduled date. So Dave is skeptical that this even happens, and if it does, he can't see it being in Las Vegas. (Surprisingly, it does happen and it is in Vegas, but we'll get there.)
Speaking of the Nevada athletic commission, XWF brought a bunch of wrestlers and a wrestling ring to the National Association of Television Program Executives conference in Vegas, with hopes of putting on a live show and impressing all the TV execs and trying to secure a TV deal. But the XWF didn't get permission from the Nevada commission, so they weren't allowed to use the ring and do a show. Whoops.
Speaking of XWF, morale is in the dumps in that company right now. Losing both Hulk Hogan and Curt Hennig (neither of whom were signed but had been working with them) as well as Sting reportedly not being interested has killed a lot of the excitement about the promotion for people within it.
Notes from Raw: Flair cut an emotional promo about his history in wrestling and how he was on the road so much and put wrestling ahead of his family and not seeing his kids and all that stuff. During the promo, Lawler made a sarcastic joke about Flair needing to have his priorities in order, which Dave thinks is pretty rich coming from Lawler, who lived the exact same life and wasn't much of a father to his kids either (which Lawler has admitted, to be fair). They're continuing to tease a Triple H/Stephanie split, with him being annoyed at her nagging. Speaking of Triple H, Dave thinks he needs to lose at least 15 pounds because he's totally slow and lumbering since he came back.
Notes from Smackdown: AJ Styles worked a dark match, losing to Rico Constantino, but apparently he looked awesome in the match (yeah he hits an awesome shooting star to the floor late in the match). And the show ended with McMahon doing the big NWO reveal on the back of his chair during his promo.

WATCH: AJ Styles vs. Rico Constantino dark match - 2002

Regarding Triple H's match on Smackdown last week, where they gave away his return match on free TV 3 days before the Rumble. Remember how Dave was flabbergasted that they would be so short-sighted? Turns out Triple H felt the same way and fought hard against it, but Vince wouldn't budge.
Chris Benoit is telling people he expects to be back in the ring around June (yup).
Jim Ross answered some questions at a press thing last week and had lots of interesting stuff to say. He said the criticism WWF was receiving for bringing in Hall, Nash, and Hogan hurts, but they have to do what's best for the company and Vince feels this is it. Doesn't sound like JR loves the idea too much either. They've had no talks with Scott Steiner. When told of Goldberg's recent comments (mentioned above), he said he wanted to believe Goldberg hadn't really said that and thought it was a shame. Said there's heat on Jeff Jarrett for how he left the WWF last time so he probably won't be welcomed back anytime soon. JR also hinted that the brand split will come after Wrestlemania and implied that they will be reviving the cruiserweight division. Dave says he's convinced that Vince will never get behind pushing cruiserweights as major stars so he's not holding out hope for that. Said they may bring in Rey Mysterio if they decided to launch a cruiserweight division. Said they'd love to have Eddie Guerrero back but he has to get his personal issues straightened out first. Same with Shawn Michaels, plus they don't know if he could physically do it.
ESPN's Bill Simmons wrote an article reviewing Royal Rumble 2002 and Dave thinks it was great. In one piece, Simmons managed to pretty much sum up all of WWF's recent problems while still acknowledging that the show was entertaining. And the link Dave posted for it in 2002 still works!

WATCH: Bill Simmons reviews the 2002 Royal Rumble

Unless things change, Chris Jericho is gonna be in an awkward situation next week. Jericho is scheduled to play in a celebrity hockey game as part of NHL All Star Weekend. Who will his celebrity coach be, you ask? Goldberg. As of press time, most people in WWF don't seem to be aware of it and Dave wouldn't be surprised if Jericho gets pulled from it.
Booker T was on the Howard Stern show (after his comments last week saying he wasn't a fan of Stern, go figure) and talked about his time in prison and his plans to write a book. He also said he hopes to retire in 2 years which Dave ain't buying (yeah, still about 10 years away from that). He also said someone is suing him over the term "Spinaroonie" because apparently someone else thinks they own the rights to that name. Booker also mentioned that he's dating former Nitro Girl Sharmell Sullivan. Dave notes that they've been dating since WCW and Booker is the one who helped her get hired by WWF, where she's currently in developmental.
DDP has also said he plans to retire in 2 years, to become a motivational speaker. This one actually almost happened. He left WWF just 3 months after this and didn't wrestle at all for several years. Then he had a brief run in TNA but he's been mostly retired other than some one-offs ever since.
Randy Orton is moving up to the main roster. In his final OVW match, Orton lost clean to Prototype and Dave says it's clear they're grooming Prototype to be the next OVW champion.

WATCH: Randy Orton vs. Prototype - OVW 2002
WEDNESDAY: More on the impending arrival of the NWO, more on the upcoming brand split, cruiserweight division, and more...

The Legendary Jerry's Nugget Playing Cards

The Story of Joe Rogan and the Stern Show: “…my problem with Howard's version of the story is that it's complete horseshit"

Hello, Hello. Here's an original rundown of the events leading to Joe Rogan's eventual departure from the Stern Show. If you've enjoyed this, check out my previous behind the scene write ups on the bottom. Thanks.
Howard is kicking off promotion for his latest book Howard Stern: Comes Again. He gives a rare candid interview with David Marchese of the New York Times. David asks Howard about his thoughts on podcasts before turning his attention to Joe Rogan. “Is there an issue between you guys?” he asks. “Yeah, there is,” Stern replies. “I was a fan of Joe’s comedy. He does a great routine about working out with weights with his buddy in the basement, and before you know it, they’re having full-on gay sex.” In typical Stern fashion, he would go on to take credit for Rogan’s success. “So I was a big proponent of his before he was a host on TV, before he got into M.M.A. fighting or whatever. I used to have him on the show...” Stern said.
It’s the year 2000. Joe Rogan had just capped off a five year stint on NewsRadio, a NBC prime time comedy. It would feature the likes of Phil Hartman, who was tragically murdered by his wife in between production of the forth and fifth season. He had also been the backstage and post-fight interviewer for the UFC, a position he’d held for 2 years before quitting. Rogan’s comedy caught the eye of Warner Bros Records, who signed him to a three album deal. Joe would go on to release “I'm Gonna Be Dead Some Day...” on CD and cassette that year. It would gain a cult following thanks to the emergence of peer to peer file sharing in the form of Napster.
The album would get frequent airtime on The Howard Stern Show, where the opening track “Getting Pumped” became a favorite of Howard and the gang. Rogan would make his first appearance on the show September 18, 2000 and talked about the sketch. “My buddy, Bryan Callen, who I did the sketch with… he and I are always doing that, we’re always playing around like that...” It wasn’t long before Howard dug up memories of Joe’s childhood. More specifically, his experience with a pedophile at the age of 12. [AUDIO] “He’s like ‘You know, I just want to tell you that I love ya. You’re a great guy… Yeah, but you know, without sex there could be no real love...’ and I went, what? I just panicked.” He also opened up about his biological father, Joe Rogan Sr. “I haven’t spoken to him since I was seven years old.” His father would attempt to contact him once he started gaining some fame. “He’s tried to do it through his mother and once through his sister… Yeah, when I got on TV. He saw my name somewhere...”
The topic then turned to the murder-suicide of fellow costar Phil Hartman. [AUDIO] “How’d you find out?” Howard asked. “I went out on a date with a girl from Hard Copy. It was a bad date. I never went out with her again. She calls me like three weeks later at like 8:30 in the morning and wakes me up. I’m like ‘What are you waking me up for?’’ She would be one to break the news to Joe. “She’s like ‘You didn’t hear?… I don’t want to be the one to tell you… Phil’s dead’. Immediately after, she’s like ‘What’s going to happen to the show?’” Joe would continue. “It gets worse. I’m in shock. I’m in a coma. I’m turning on the TV. You know, I can’t believe this. Then she goes ‘Joe, we need to get a sound byte from you.’… So I hang up the phone. I’m like ‘I got to go.’ So then the phone starts ringing, everybody’s calling, everybody heard the news, all my friends… Twenty minutes later, she calls again. ‘Joe, um, how are you? OK?’ I’m like ‘I don’t know.’ She goes ‘Listen, we need to get your address.’ I go ‘Why?’, she goes ‘We’re sending a camera crew over. We have to interview you.’”
There was also talk about an incident with another costar, Andy Dick, on the set. [AUDIO] Rogan was in his trailer along with his girlfriend when Andy came knocking. “I was getting dressed and Andy starts pounding on the door. He’s like, ‘What are you doing? What are you doing in there? Are you having sex?’ I’m like, ‘No. Dude, I'm getting dressed. Get out of here’. He’s like ‘Just open up the door. I have to tell you something.’ So I open up the door and Andy’s standing there with his unit in his hand, with his pants half down and wacking it.”
Joe was a hit. He would become a regular from that day on, even sitting in during the show. He also returned to the UFC after an ownership change, where he was promoted to color commentator. More importantly, he became host of the hottest summer show of 2001, Fear Factor. This lead to legendary on air battles with Vinnie Favale, self appointed CBS spokesperson. Vinnie was actually Vice President of CBS Late Night Programming, East Coast, but couldn’t resist any opportunity to defend the network in any capacity. The two would argue repeatedly over the success of Joe’s hit show, which happened to be on a competing network. Usually, in complete denial, Vinnie would try to spin any dispute in CBS’ favor. The host of Fear Factor laid into him during an argument in the summer of ‘01. [AUDIO] “You’re a company man. This is sad. You’re the kind of guy that gets fired from his job and blows his brains out because you believe that everything revolves around your company. You are sucked in. ‘We’re going to kick your asses.’ It's not even you! You’re not even doing anything. You have nothing to do with Survivor. You have nothing to do with the programming. You have nothing to do with the success of it” he said. Their clashes would be a staple of Best Of in the early 2000’s.
However, the relationship between Joe and the show would come to an end in 2004. Stern would go on during that 2019 New York Times Interview. “Joe was a guest one time and I said something to him off the air, which I won’t go into, but he took offense. I haven’t heard or seen him since. I think he made the decision that I was toxic for him. But I hold no grudge.”
On the May 4, 2009 show, the Stern Show would discuss the controversy in some detail. [AUDIO] Howard kicks off the conversation with some tape he has from the previous night. “… So I told you Joe had some problem with me, so he discussed it with Greg Fitzsimmons.” “He wont discuss it with us?” Robin asks. “No, and you know, I remember the exact incident and everything and I knew this is what it was,” Howard says.
Joe would explain his version of events on Fitzsimmons show. “Well, I kind of explained it the last time I was here but, I just try to avoid drama, you know? He said something about me on the air that I didn’t like… He said I hate women and I was like, come on man, really? He said something about us being in a strip club, where we were all in a strip club, and he said, you know… He had did a thing in Vegas and he had hired out a whole section of this strip club. It was pretty bad ass... I remember I was really high and when I’m really high, I can’t get lap dances. It just weirds me out. It’s just too freaky. You can feel this person really doesn’t want to do this, this is their job, then you start thinking about their past. So anyway, he starts saying that I said to them ‘Get away, whores’, which I’d never say. It’s just not true… For me, first of all, it’s like I'm going to have to defend that and whenever you’re defending something like that, it always automatically looks like you’re being defensive because it’s bullshit.” Joe continued, making sure to be clear there were no hard feelings. “I don’t want to even be involved and I just said, I'll just be a fan again… and I listen all the time.”
Howard would shoot back. “I’ll tell you the whole story and Joe’s right. It’s better that Joe doesn’t come on again because he’s building this thing up. You know, first of all, I’m somebody who has guests on and I try to make them comfortable when they’re on the show and I try to be a good interviewer and I also try to, you know, create something. We were in Vegas. Joe showed up to a strip club. It wasn’t my event. I was at a strip club. They had invited us over, am I correct? We were there. I think one of our guys was making an appearance there...
“… Maybe Joe was high or something. He was saying shit about some of the strippers and I said to him on the air that it seems like you’re angry with women. You know, you were just kind of pissed off. He was hateful, you know. You can make the same statements about me about what I do for a living…
“… He was saying stuff to me about the women… He seemed angry and I said to him sometimes it seems like you’re angry with women. What was going on that night? I don’t think he wanted that out there or as he says he didn’t say it or maybe I misheard it…”
Gary would jump into the studio and add his own version of events. “I always thought it was about something I talked about on the radio. Maybe it is something different. I remember we went out one night… We walked into the strip club and Joe goes ‘These girls are all fucking, you know, God, they’re all fucking damaged. I fucking hate these chicks. I’m not even going to get a lap dance,’” Gary said.
Howard would continue and even for a moment, he would second guess himself. “I didn’t mean it as a whole intellectual… I thought Joe would say ‘Hey, Howard. Come on, man. I was tired...’ or you know we’d have some interesting conversation about it but Joe took it really personally and I understand that he did. Now in retrospect, maybe I’m looking at it and going...” but Gary wouldn’t let his boss show weakness. “I don’t know Howard. I think he’s overreacting.” Gary would continue, “We did a lot of good things for him. We had him on the show. You know, we helped him out a lot in a lot of ways. I think at one point I had a discussion with his manager and he’s like ‘You know, if Howard was a friend he would never had said it’ and I said ‘Well, if Joe was a friend, he would have asked about it and discussed it instead of just never talking about it.’”
Howard would end the segment questioning Rogan’s version of events with his own evidence. “According to our show log, it shows that Gary was the one who said Joe called the girls whores. I had also heard Joe saying some stuff and I said to Joe ‘Joe, sometimes it seems like you were angry that night with women’ and I wanted him to talk about it on the air but I guess it was a road he didn’t want to go down.”
The day in question is February 7, 2002. The Stern Show is broadcasting from the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas on delay. Joe Rogan was the first guest on their opening day. Howard got into a discussion about the previous night.
[AUDIO]

Howard: … then we went over to Club Paradise, the strip club. Then I figured I'd just walk in there and not know anyone. Everyone was there from the show.
Artie: Well I had a big appearance there.
Howard: Yeah, Artie had an appearance there and Stuttering John has one there tonight, but Joe Rogan, you try to act like you’re above the strip club.
Joe Rogan: No. What are you talking about? How am I trying to act like I'm above it?
Howard: You’re always like, ‘Ah, these girls [mumbles incoherently]’
Joe Rogan: What? They’re hot. What are you talking about?
Howard: Yeah.
Joe Rogan: No such thing.
Howard: Alright, I thought… then I just see you sitting there.
Joe Rogan: What are you talking about? You’re making this up.
Gary: Joe uses the word whore about 20 times an hour.
Howard: Yeah, he says ‘these whores’, this, that, and the other.
Joe Rogan: I don’t say it like that. I don’t say it that way. I say it in an affectionate way.
Howard: I think you’re angry with women.
Robin: Well, he does that whole routine about the girls who are angry because he’s using a dollar to get them to take off their clothes.
Howard: That is a good routine…
Stuttering John: …When we were at the pool Howard, you know, Joe looks at me and he goes ‘Look, these are lower shelf hookers here tonight’.
Joe Rogan: That was the first crew.
Howard: They were lovely ladies.
Joe Rogan: Oh, stop Howard. That first crew was rough. Mr. Miyagi with the fake boobs.
Howard: You think because a girl takes her clothes off and dances that she’s a whore?
Joe Rogan: No, not all of them.
Stuttering John: Bottom shelf whores is what he said. That’s what it was.
Joe Rogan: The first crew…
Club Paradise Stripper: Look at you, you Fear Factor guy. You’re just paranoid with women.
Joe Rogan: You’re hot. You girls are hot. I’m not talking about you.
Club Paradise Stripper: Look at you. You were so mean yesterday. You were mean.
Joe Rogan: Mean to who? How was I mean? To you?

The moment ended up being rather uneventful. In fact, this wouldn’t be Joe’s last appearance on the show. He would stop by the studio several more times, most notably on September 22, 2003. Joe is in the studio to promote Fear Factor, The Man Show, and UFC. In what may or may not be a coincidence, there is a woman in the green room waiting to play Stump the Booey who just so happens to have slept with Joe Rogan.
Gary would burst into he studio while Joe was on the couch. “You know, there’s something really weird. We have these girls that are coming on next segment. They’re playing Stump the Booey against me. They’re twins. One of the girls heard Joe on and she’s like ‘ Oh, I have a story about Joe.’”
Her name was Crystal. [AUDIO] “He was my first one night stand,” she said. Joe would vaguely remember the two hooking up many years ago. What she said next would nearly have Joe’s eyes popping out of his head. “… After that wonderful one night stand, I got pregnant,” she announced to millions of radio listeners. Joe was in a state of shock as it was the first time he was hearing the news. “How old is your son or daughter?” Howard asked. “I never kept it,” she replied. The news would send Joe into frenzy, as if Maury Povich himself had opened up an envelope with the DNA results. “Thank you, Jesus!” Rogan screamed. Howard asked Joe if he was nervous that she was going to bring the kid in. “Well, it was a little creepy right there for a moment,” he replied.
Crystal would then go on to talk about her decision to have an abortion. Joe would interrupt. “I’m so nervous right now. My heart is skipping.” Howard asks “What scares you most about that? The fact that you have a kid, that you have to pay… what would scare you the most? Joe didn’t hesitate. “It’s that I would be connected to someone that I really don’t know for the rest of my life and I’d have to deal with her every time I wanted to see the kid, if I wanted to see the kid.” He then admitted it wasn’t even his first abortion predicament. “The other time was when I was 23. It was a girl I was dating”
Fast forwarding to 2004, we find what might have been Joe’s last straw with the show. While previously citing show logs during that 2009 discussion, Howard would make the claim he never made the “Get away, whores” comment. Instead, he would place the blame on Gary. However, a discussion that took place on September 22, 2004 would prove that statement to be false. Comedienne Bonnie McFarlane had stopped by the show and sat in for the news. She was once a writer for The Man Show when it was hosted by Rogan and Doug Stanhope. [AUDIO] While discussing Rogan, Howard would go on to say, “Joe hates women… Joe’s weird. I’ve gone to strip clubs with him and he’s like ‘get away from me, whore.’” Robin would continue the onslaught. “… Even when we were in Vegas together and there were stripper dancers, he was yelling all kinds of horrible things. I was like ‘these women aren’t doing anything to you. Why are you screaming at them?’” They would continue with allegations of Joe yelling at the Juggies, a nickname given to the Man Show dancers. Bonnie would go on to say Joe was the biggest supporter of the Juggies, often yelling at the director for his treatment of the females. However, he would usually follow that up with yelling of his own.
Around 2007, a topic on the incident would appear on the mma.tv message boards. Rogan himself would reply to the allegations. It would be the most detailed version of events during this whole controversy.
“… my problem with Howard's version of the story is that it's complete horseshit. I never said ‘get away whores’ to anyone. We were at a party that they were throwing for the show, and there were a lot of pretty strippers, but there were also a lot of unattractive, aggressive ones that were trying to get guys to buy lapdances. Howard, and some of the other guys were getting them, and I didn't want one. The girls were pushy, and all I kept saying is ‘no thanks.’ Somehow, that got turned into ‘get away, whores’ when he got on the radio.
“Howard likes drama, real or created. It makes for good radio. That's all well and good, but I choose not to be put on the defensive for something that I never did. Also, I've got a real pet peeve with the whole ‘you hate women’ tag. It's a weak line that people will throw around to try to define someone, often if they don't like or have a problem with dumb or obnoxious chicks. If you have a problem with dumb dudes, no one ever says that ‘you hate men,’ but you get in one argument with a pushy cunt and that's the cop out they'll always try to use. It's like a lazy black guy that gets reprimanded at work for doing a shitty job, and he cries that the reason he's getting in trouble is because the boss doesn't like black people.
“When you've got a guy that you respect and admire, and you've done his show a bunch of times you think that you're friends. Then, when that guy turns on you and talks shit about you, especially shit that's not true, it's a gross feeling. I'm a loyal friend, and that shit means a lot to me.
“If I had a friend outside of show business and he gave a distorted account of me like that, I would stop hanging around with him, and I wouldn't trust him anymore. I treat my friends in show business the same way I treat my friends in real life.
“As for Howard, I have no ill feelings. I was always a huge fan of the show, and it was an honor to be on it. When I decided to avoid doing the show after this, I started doing Opie and Anthony, and I really enjoyed their show. Jim Norton is a buddy of mine from way back when we both were starting out as stand ups, and I really fucking love being on that show. Plus, I think Norton is the funniest guy on radio. I'll probably do Stern again sometime, I just thought that whole situation was really weak, and I didn't want to be a part of it...
“I still listen to Stern all the time, and I think it's a great show. I've always considered him to be the Johnny Carson of my era. In past eras it was HUGE to get on the tonight show with Johnny and have him ask you to sit on the couch. In my generation, it's Stern. He's the King for a reason. No hate, I just don't feel like being a part of the kind of shit I described….”
Joe would copy and paste his response on the Official Joe Rogan Forum along with a small update:
“ In reading the post back after flying across the Atlantic Ocean (on my way to UFC in Belfast) I had time to think about it, and I think there definitely could be a very convincing argument that I had sand in my vagina when I made it, but I did make it, so i left it up.
“I'm certainly not trying to get in some sort of a battle with a guy that's helped me out, and a guy that I respect very much….”
Joe Rogan would go on to be very complimentary of Stern in the following years. Even when Howard would go on to attack close friend Ari Shaffir about the legitimacy of podcasts, Rogan would continue to show his appreciation for the self appointed King of All Media.
Vinny Favale would continue to take shots at Rogan after his show absence. In a conversation that would take place on March 9, 2005, Gary would question Vinny’s expertise on everything network TV. “I was watching Fear Factor in syndication yesterday on UPN and you told Joe Rogan that show was done, it had a few months left, and it was over”. Vinny, notorious for being the ultimate company man responded, “That show is not a hit though… Where is Joe Rogan? You don’t see him anywhere”.
Rogan would go on to be on of the most listened to voices in the world with the Joe Rogan Experience podcast. Vinny Favale would later be pushed out of CBS after allegations of misconduct, which included talking to fellow employees about his erections. New Late Show host Stephen Colbert would distance himself from the creator of the infamous Debbie tapes. “He [Favale] basically came with the building when I got this show...”

If you've enjoyed this, I've also written other original behind the scene rundowns of moments in show history:

The Story of Double A: From Grand Jury Indictment to Stern Show Outcast.

The Story Of Robin's Intern and the SiriusXM Class Action Lawsuit: "I Was Injured Getting Howard His Fruit Salad..."

The Story of Howard vs. CBS: Complete Breakdown of the 2006 Lawsuit.

The Story of Steve Langford: Kicked Out Before He Could Leave

The Story of Teddy "Microphone": How an eBay auction led to his Stern Show exit.

The Story Behind Howard playing the Scarecrow in Batman 5.

Story of Sussy: The HowardTV member who left the show to ride a bike and eventually start his own farming business.

"Jane": A breakdown of Howard's 1997 sophomore movie that never was, starring Melanie Griffith.

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A Guide to The Weeknd's Discography

XO.